Largest Nitrous shot?

boostedmx · Post by **boostedmx** » May 15th, 2002, 8:22 am

think what u want man. [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » May 15th, 2002, 1:20 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stevech_2001: blah blah blah I'm dumb<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You apparently have very poor reading comprehension. Let me spell it out for you, plain and simple, one last time:<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>the MX-3 1.6L SOHC is a B6 block <LI>B6 blocks are all very similar from the factory, with closed deck iron blocks, forged cranks, big beefy rods and pistons <LI>The B6 was originally designed for the BF chassis 323 GTX, which was a homologation rally car <LI>Miatas were equipped with B6's from 89-93 <LI>Miata guys are hitting 300+ bhp with stock internals on 1.6L's [www.miata.net] <LI>So, the original question was how much nitrous can a B6 SOHC hold. They have held 125 shots with no problem, and could very likely hold a 200 shot with a progressive controller to protect from the jerk force [derivative of acceleration] <LI><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/solomiata/MX5Engine.html" TARGET=_blank>Here</A> is a link for Mazda 4cyl information, specifically B series stuff. Read and learn </UL>

Stevech_2001 · Post by **Stevech_2001** » May 15th, 2002, 3:38 pm

I've read that many times before and it only say's one or to things about the SOHC "The 1.6 liter version has as large a bore as the block can accommodate and cannot really have it's displacement increased much more, in fact, enlarging the bore beyond +1mm is not advised." I see you forgot to mention the fact that the block bored to the max which leads me to believe that it isn't very strong and it also states that it dosen't have anything to do with the dohc. I am merely stated the fact that a 125 shot is pushing it to the max which was already stated when boostdmx said "in fact i was scared every time i sprayed it." a 125 shot is huge and your motor would have to be in great repair and have to be a "WET" shot not a "DRY" with some nice engine management. It must be cleared up we were talking about a "WET" shot aswell. Why do you persist on flaming me is there any reason inperticular??? I wouldn't have thought an "administrator" would be so confrontational.... oh ya 200 shot you go try that one on your own car and see what happens (burnt pistons, rings at best) then think of me after words. I don't care how good you think these 88hp little motors are "David" it cannot hold a 200 every one check this thing I found out it's really good <A HREF="http://www.importtuner.com/archives/tec ... ch03.shtml" TARGET=_blank>http://www.importtuner.com/archives/tec ... 3.shtml</A>

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » May 15th, 2002, 5:36 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stevech_2001: I've read that many times before and it only say's one or to things about the SOHC "The 1.6 liter version has as large a bore as the block can accommodate and cannot really have it's displacement increased much more, in fact, enlarging the bore beyond +1mm is not advised." I see you forgot to mention the fact that the block bored to the max which leads me to believe that it isn't very strong and it also states that it dosen't have anything to do with the dohc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Bore spacing has nothing to do with how much nitrous the motor can handle. You made an incorrect assumption. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stevech_2001: I am merely stated the fact that a 125 shot is pushing it to the max which was already stated when boostdmx said "in fact i was scared every time i sprayed it." a 125 shot is huge and your motor would have to be in great repair and have to be a "WET" shot not a "DRY" with some nice engine management. It must be cleared up we were talking about a "WET" shot aswell.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Of course. A dry shot over 80bhp is really pushing it on K series motors I know, and I've heard a general rule of thumb that 50 is about as much as you want to go dry with on a fuel system with most EFI cars. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stevech_2001: Why do you persist on flaming me is there any reason inperticular??? I wouldn't have thought an "administrator" would be so confrontational.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I abhor ignorance, a flag which you have proudly waved throughout this thread <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stevech_2001: oh ya 200 shot you go try that one on your own car and see what happens (burnt pistons, rings at best) then think of me after words. I don't care how good you think these 88hp little motors are "David" it cannot hold a 200 every one check this thing I found out it's really good <A HREF="http://www.importtuner.com/archives/tec ... ch03.shtml" TARGET=_blank>http://www.importtuner.com/archives/tec ... UOTE>Ok, so you offer no factual reason why it can't hold a large shot of nitrous other than "burnt pistons, rings". But that point has been refuted, because B6's can easily handle over 300bhp in turbo duty [which is equivalent not only on hp side of it but on the increased cylinder pressures and temperatures aspect of it as well]. So 88bhp plus 200 bhp is 288bhp, which is well under 300bhp, and well within our PROVEN FACTUAL limits from REAL PEOPLE with REAL MOTORS and REAL DYNOS. If you choose to ignore 10+ years of experience with these motors by thousands of people, so be it. But don't come on here spewing your opinion as fact, citing nothing substantial other than "just because I said so".Do your homework kid. [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]

maldo · Post by **maldo** » May 15th, 2002, 5:49 pm

If somebody has a n2o system and is willing to send it to me for some testing, I would be more than happy to put my old sohc motor into my car and see what it is capable of.Anything to end this ignorance. Maybe he will believe it when it happens.

Stevech_2001 · Post by **Stevech_2001** » May 15th, 2002, 11:42 pm

"KID" ok.......I have never saw an engine that took that much nitrous so of course I'm going to be skeptical(the number is huge)....I also don't understand how these engines could be boasted to over 300 hp when I have been told to not boost my DOHC past 7 psi by everyone in here, and have saw this stated many a times about the SOHC(7psi would boost it to maybe 110hp)....how would you fight detonation????(there is not engine management for these cars that I was ever awair of ie APEXI and fields controllers) and it is a proven fact that stock cast pistons cannot take much detonation before breaking where as forged can take more abuse.....as you can see I never said that 300 hp could not be reached I said that you would need forged pistons and extremely strong rods (88hp to 300 hp is a huge jump) and I completly agree that a wet shot is different and believe a 100 shot is easily in reach but 200 seems alittle over the top for me

rikymaru · Post by **rikymaru** » May 16th, 2002, 11:56 am

I cant believe this is still be argued about.YES, the engine is derived from a B6 series that went on to become the miata, the protege, and the MX3.YES, it can hold up a good amount on the internals.But there is no way a 200 shot of nitrous will work on a stock engine. Think about it...your going to be running 200 extra hp on an engine that was designed for a 88hp car. That means your 105HP fuel system will be supporting 300HP. Your 88hp internals will be supporting 300hp. Your ecu? Hey, its expecting 88 but its getting 300.The engine is derived from the same series as the b6t and the bpt, but not the ecu, fuel system, injectors, (I'm pretty sure the intake wasn't changed) the more restricitve exhuast, etc..The thing peopl don't realize is you don't jsut throw on nitrous. A lot is required to get an engine ready for a turbo because you are forcing in more air. Nitrous is basically doing the same thing only chemically and the engine needs to be ready to take it.

Stevech_2001 · Post by **Stevech_2001** » May 16th, 2002, 3:27 pm

eh men.....

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » May 16th, 2002, 3:36 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by rikymaru: I cant believe this is still be argued about.YES, the engine is derived from a B6 series that went on to become the miata, the protege, and the MX3.YES, it can hold up a good amount on the internals.But there is no way a 200 shot of nitrous will work on a stock engine. Think about it...your going to be running 200 extra hp on an engine that was designed for a 88hp car. That means your 105HP fuel system will be supporting 300HP. Your 88hp internals will be supporting 300hp. Your ecu? Hey, its expecting 88 but its getting 300.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Your 105bhp fuel system will be supporting 105bhp. You will plumb in additional fuel lines with the N20 lines, so that you can support 200hp of nitrous with 200hp of fuel. Hence the stipulation of a "wet" shot.You do raise a good point about the ecu. Retarding the timing a bit would be a good safeguard while running large shots of nitrous without dyno tuning.

boostedmx · Post by **boostedmx** » May 16th, 2002, 7:08 pm

it doesnt matter what you think. many people have exceeded 300hp on stock internals. doesnt matter if its a dohc or sohc the blocks are almost identical, ive had them both torn down and most parts (90%)interchange.this topic is getting out of control- i merely said with enough tuning it could handle 150-200hp shot. not stock ecu settings, not stock fuel system or ignition for that matter. TUNING IS THE KEY!! IT CAN AND HAS BEEN DONE, as long as i know that you can babble all you want

Stevech_2001 · Post by **Stevech_2001** » May 16th, 2002, 10:03 pm

I agree with a high level of tune a 100 or so "WET" not "DRY" shot could maybe be reached on a real strong motor....but like you said with a whole lotta ignition and fuel system to boot....and it is out of control some one should close this topic so know one else will flame me or anyone else for that matter...can you close a topic????anyway who's in favor for stopping posts here on this topic [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]

Stevech_2001 · Post by **Stevech_2001** » May 16th, 2002, 10:05 pm

I agree with a high level of tune a 100 or so "WET" not "DRY" shot could maybe be reached on a real strong motor....but like you said with a whole lotta ignition and fuel system to boot....and it is out of control some one should close this topic so know one else will flame me or anyone else for that matter...can you close a topic????anyway who's in favor for stopping posts here on this topic [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » May 17th, 2002, 12:13 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stevech_2001: anyway who's in favor for stopping posts here on this topic [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This board is not a democracy. We do not vote and decide what to do. If you want to stop replies in this post...stop replying. [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]

Stevech_2001 · Post by **Stevech_2001** » May 17th, 2002, 3:34 pm

I wasn't asking for a vote I was pointing out that this topic is blowing up......I personally am not posting on this topic again but still refude to the end that 400 hp worth of boost on the SOHC is not reachable on stock pistons in that motor the fuel system would have to be insane to supply fuel to that much boost to keep it from leaning out....not to mention the c/r is to high for 35 psi, heavily dished pistons would be needed(concave pistons)....it would be impossible to seal in that much boost on a stock head gasket.....nitrous is another story 100 wet shot I could see, 200 I could not see with stock internals.....and that's my 2 cents on the matter [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]

David Coleman · Post by **David Coleman** » June 5th, 2002, 2:56 pm

Click <A HREF="http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/v ... 651&page=6" TARGET=_blank>here</A> for pics of stock mazda rods as compared to stock SR20DET rods. The nissan SR20DET has been documented to take well over 400whp worth of boost on stock internals. Compare the two and make your own guesses on how strong Mazda 4cyl bottom ends are. ps: the FE DOHC is identical to a BP DOHC, but 30% larger everything. And the BP and B6 are also very similar. [img]shrug.gif"%20border="0[/img]

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