MX-3.com

Hahah damn, I'll admit I'm bad with estimating weights And yeah the 2nd fan (smaller) is for the AC only.

Inodoro Pereyra wrote:Hmmm...straight line? I thought you could drive...

I can drive, I just figure if I'm doing any kind of Autocross/road racing, I'd still want a few creature comforts. If I go to the time/effort/expense of a track only car, it'll be for drag.

Mooneggs wrote: So as I was going through this, it dawned on me that the second fan is for the A/C only? Is this correct? It doesn't run at all in conjuction with the other fan??

It does not, it is AC only. That's why when i removed my AC, I wired it into the other Fan relay Duel fans is better than one!

Personally I like the idea of getting rid of the Power steering system to eliminate the extra load on the pulley and engine, but I hate the thought of having manual steering. My 55' Ford has manual steering and if your not rolling it sux. Even the 88' Honda I had, had manual steering and it sucked. To me pump up the boost a lb or two and enjoy the comfort of quick responsive power steering.

I was looking into an electronic power steering pump, it is a variable speed with your RPM's and would eliminate the belt system. That would be a good alternative, especially if you have Millenia alt.

Josh wrote:Personally I like the idea of getting rid of the Power steering system to eliminate the extra load on the pulley and engine, but I hate the thought of having manual steering. My 55' Ford has manual steering and if your not rolling it sux. Even the 88' Honda I had, had manual steering and it sucked. To me pump up the boost a lb or two and enjoy the comfort of quick responsive power steering.

QFT! Even then, I take the hp hit and keep power steering and flick the car around with literally one finger.

I agree about the power steering, that's why it appeals to me for drag only

The compromise is an underdrive pulley.

Nd4SpdSe wrote:

Josh wrote:Personally I like the idea of getting rid of the Power steering system to eliminate the extra load on the pulley and engine, but I hate the thought of having manual steering. My 55' Ford has manual steering and if your not rolling it sux. Even the 88' Honda I had, had manual steering and it sucked. To me pump up the boost a lb or two and enjoy the comfort of quick responsive power steering.

QFT! Even then, I take the hp hit and keep power steering and flick the car around with literally one finger.

Of course. And you both will be driving very comfortably...right in the last places.
Racing is not about "taking the hp hit", or "pumping up the boost" to compensate for something that hurts performance. If you can pump up the boost, you do it to have more power available, not to compensate for anything. And no, a real racer doesn't "take the hp hit" for anything, except safety.

In a race, the car is only a portion of getting to the finish like. The driver has to last as much as the car. I've man-handled go-karts that work my arms so hard that it exhaust me way more than racing my Mx-3 or Rx-8 which of course is much much heavier. With the steering so light and easy, it's easier to hit the corners tighter, and again and again, where you're not fighting against the wheel, just focusing on the drive. Where I can palm the wheel and turn it so fast and effortlessly that hand-over-hand would look like your arms are in molasses, making direction changes many times faster. Any race car that races where serious turning is involved, the car will be equipped with PS. Ask Mooneggs and Stereoking how much they love their PS....

Yeah there's no way I'm going to remove my PS - I see way more value in what it provides over gaining a couple of hp.

...and I'm not coming in last place either (as you can tell from my vids/stats)

Once again, Nd4, stop giving advise on things you know nothing about.

I LEARNED to drive on a car without power steering, and without power brakes. I worked as a taxi driver for 3 years, driving cars without power steering for 16 to 23 Hrs a day. But. most importantly, I WORKED on more race cars than you will see in your life, in a country were all races involve lots of turning.

ANY serious racer will get rid of ALL power assist first, when preparing a car for the track. Not only the power steering, but also the power brakes (in case -not surprising at all- you don't know it, heavily tweaked engines produce very little vacuum).

And yes, you're right about something: the driver is very important in racing. That's why serious racers TRAIN to endure the race. Actually, any real racer will tell you the effort to steer the car is the least of their concerns. The G loads a real race driver is subjected to during a race are way more exhausting than the steering effort, any day.

Mooneggs wrote: ...and I'm not coming in last place either (as you can tell from my vids/stats)

Well, if I were to prep a car, you wouldn't be first either...

Inodoro Pereyra wrote:Well, if I were to prep a car, you wouldn't be first either...

LOL I don't doubt it, but from my experience already i'm already beating quite a few "prepped" cars and they are shocked to see I have alot of amenities still... I may eventually change my mind on removing the PS... we'll see how hardcore I get

Mooneggs wrote: we'll see how hardcore I get

Oh, believe me: you WILL get there.

Inodoro Pereyra wrote:Once again, Nd4, stop giving advise on things you know nothing about.

I LEARNED to drive on a car without power steering, and without power brakes. I worked as a taxi driver for 3 years, driving cars without power steering for 16 to 23 Hrs a day. But. most importantly, I WORKED on more race cars than you will see in your life, in a country were all races involve lots of turning.

ANY serious racer will get rid of ALL power assist first, when preparing a car for the track. Not only the power steering, but also the power brakes (in case -not surprising at all- you don't know it, heavily tweaked engines produce very little vacuum).

And yes, you're right about something: the driver is very important in racing. That's why serious racers TRAIN to endure the race. Actually, any real racer will tell you the effort to steer the car is the least of their concerns. The G loads a real race driver is subjected to during a race are way more exhausting than the steering effort, any day.

Mooneggs wrote: ...and I'm not coming in last place either (as you can tell from my vids/stats)

Well, if I were to prep a car, you wouldn't be first either...

HAHAHA WOW, I can say only one thing to this really

"I live my life a quarter mile at a time... It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile... winnings winning... Dude I almost Had YOU!.. You almost had me?! You almost had me? Your never had me... you never had your car..."

Again you make me laugh

Go look under the hood of some GT series track cars and count how many have Power steering and Power brakes for me. Then return with your findings.

Edit: find out how many are running ABS and Traction Control systems too.

With advancements in technology in the 40's and 50's came power assisted functions. There is probably a good reason modern cars and all out race cars run things like power brakes and power steering. It depends on your function, sure if your primary focus is a straight line and 10th to 100th of every second count then sure, but I cant see telling Ferrari engineers that they are building their race cars all wrong...

Josh wrote:
Again you make me laugh

And once again, I'm so glad you're enjoying yourself.
Yet I'm curious how you think stating someone "makes you laugh" will somehow invalidate that person's claims, or validate yours.
Let me amuse you a bit more. I'm 46 years old. I started with mechanics (did my first transmission) when I was 8. That means, just in case you don't have a calculator available, I started in mechanics ten years before you started jumping between your dad's balls.
You find that funny too?

Josh wrote:Go look under the hood of some GT series track cars and count how many have Power steering and Power brakes for me. Then return with your findings.

Edit: find out how many are running ABS and Traction Control systems too.

Actually, I don't have to. Here are the technical regulations (when it comes to steering) for GT1 and GT2 cars.

ARTICLE 11 : STEERING

11.1
Principle
The link between the driver and the wheels must be mechanical and continuous.

11.2
Modifications
All components and characteristics of the steering system must be homologated.

11.3
Four-wheel steering
Prohibited.

11.4
Power steering
The steering must be under the control of the driver at all times, and any system that takes control away from the driver, even momentarily, is prohibited.

How's that for looking under the hood?
And, just in case you might want to check it out, here's the link. Look for article 257.

http://www.fia.com/sport/regulations/gtregs.html
Finally, traction control and ABS systems do make the car go much faster around the track. Power steering doesn't.

Josh wrote: but I cant see telling Ferrari engineers that they are building their race cars all wrong...

Neither do I. Especially when they do NOT use power steering on their most important cars (Formula 1), even when the F1 regulations allow for it. Actually, MOST F1 teams don't use it (regardless of the fact that F1 cars do a lot of turning), and, on the teams that do use it, drivers tend to hate it.
Here's, for example, what Jarno Trulli said about his car's power steering system, a week ago:

"The real problem is with the power steering, because it carries on troubling me. If I don't have clear feedback from the steering, as is always the case nowadays, I can't adapt: my driving is very precise and I can't make up for it nor I can feel the limit. It's like driving blindfolded."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92509

So? Still laughing?

ARTICLE 11 : STEERING

11.1
Principle
The link between the driver and the wheels must be mechanical and continuous.

11.2
Modifications
All components and characteristics of the steering system must be homologated.

11.3
Four-wheel steering
Prohibited.

11.4
Power steering
The steering must be under the control of the driver at all times, and any system that takes control away from the driver, even momentarily, is prohibited.

Ok your steering is still mechanical, even with Power assist. Power Steering is mechanical and power assisted.

all Homologation means it it has to be an approved system.

"Homologation is a technical term, derived from the Greek homologeo (ὁμολογέω) for "to agree", which is generally used in English to signify the granting of approval by an official authority. This may be a court of law, a government department, or an academic or professional body, any of which would normally work from a set of strict rules or standards to determine whether such approval should be given"

Then followed with this directed towards motor sports

"In motorsports a vehicle must be homologated by the sanctioning body to race in a given league, such as NASCAR, World Superbikes, International Level Kart Racing or other sportscar racing series.
Where a racing class requires that the cars raced be production vehicles only slightly adapted for racing, manufacturers typically produce a limited run of such vehicles for public sale so that they can legitimately race them in the class. These cars are commonly called "homologation specials"."

so yah, it just means that they govern what you can and cannot use. Doesn't imply that you cannot have PS.

And power steering takes no control away from the driver, so why does this justify the elimination of power steering? I never mentioned F1 did I

I am still laughing, mainly because anyone can pull things off of Google, I just don't see where you think its ok to tell others they are wrong because your 46 years old, built your firs whatever at 8 and for some reason think age means something when it comes to knowledge, when your not 100% correct either. So I laugh and chuckle humbly to myself, because most of us on here have done the same. I could go into my history but really what does it matter... it doesn't!

I am not going to post again in this thread as i do not wish to keep this going as its way off topic. But the elimination of Power Steering in your Auto X car could help you if you need the extra 5 crank HP, and restrictions in you class prevent you from doing other things to gain the power. Otherwise its not worth it.

IT'S ALL A MATTER OF OPINION, AND THUS THIS DEBATE COULD GO ON FOREVER