K8 to KLZE/DE swap

[Daninski]

Coolant sensors are the same as is everything except the O2 sensors or the disty. If you try to use the ZE disty you need to change the wires around in the 3 wire plug. PM me if you decide to do that and I'll tell you which wires to reverse.

[OutlaW]

i have made up my mind ... it's a DE
But i am wondering this ...
I can order a De engine, but just the engine ... no ECU for about 1990$
or
I can travel to Spain, Germany or some other european country and buy a 95 or 96 Ford Probe GT for about 1500$
Then travel in it back to Portugal ... leave it in my autoshop to make the engine swap

Now the trouble ... the second option is better right ? Won't i be able to change: clutch, gearbox, ECU and the engine ?
I mean... it's a bad thing to do ... to a perfectly good Probe... but i love the MX3

[fowljesse]

Yeah, I would do #2 for the adventure.

[OutlaW]

jesse, added to the adventure ... will it not be more profitable ?
i mean ... i will pay the autoshop the work for getting these parts from the Probe ... but it will be cheaper than getting them aftermaket or alone ... wont it ?
My question is ...
the clutch from a Probe GT will be the best bet with the DE, right ?
the gearbox from a Probe GT will be the best bet with the DE, right ?
the ECU from a Probe GT will be the best bet with the DE, right ?
are there any other parts from a Probe Gt i can have ?

[Daninski]

The Probe tranny will have a higher top gear so if you want your car quick off the line then stick with the MX-3 tranny. Just use your existing ecu and swap over whatever parts are different from your engine to the DE. I'm no expert here but I've never understood why people swap over their ECU and VAF to the Probe/MX-6 one. I guess the fuel mapping and vris could be one answer just make sure the probe is 96 or newer or the ECU won't plug in (4 plug vers 3 plugs for 92-95). The ZE runs great with my 96 ECU. I just installed the KL02 VAF as it runs smoother for daily driving.

[Nd4SpdSe]

The Probe tranny will have a higher top gear so if you want your car quick off the line then stick with the MX-3 tranny. Just use your existing ecu and swap over whatever parts are different from your engine to the DE. I'm no expert here but I've never understood why people swap over their ECU and VAF to the Probe/MX-6 one. I guess the fuel mapping and vris could be one answer just make sure the probe is 96 or newer or the ECU won't plug in (4 plug vers 3 plugs for 92-95). The ZE runs great with my 96 ECU. I just installed the KL02 VAF as it runs smoother for daily driving.

No, the Probe tranny is the exact same gearing as the Mx-3

As for the ECU, you need to change them because the K8 ECU still thinks there's a K8 in there, and with that thinks it still had the 180cc injectors, so when it sense the a mount of air coming in from the VAF, it pulses for the 180cc's, but now it's got the 220cc's in the KL, so it dumps in more fuel than it knows. So it runs really rich

Putting a KL02 VAF in conjunction tricks the ECU and works quite well for what it is

The DE ECU and VAF are a good match since they were design to run a 2.5L motor, the only thing that i've heard is that they (the DE ECU) doesn't operate the VRIS solenoids on an Mx-3, not sure why or if it's true, but that's what I've heard

the Mx-3's JE50 VAF combined with a KL31 or KL36 ECU is a match from the factory (in Japan) as well for 2.5L motors, so it's efficient and it operates the VRIS solenoids

On an OBDII Mx-3, you are required to run your K8 ECU, and you can keep the stock VAF, but it seems that the KL02 VAF helps it runs better. With your OBDII system, it's smart, and combine that with the extra 2 02 sensors, it can compensate for the different motor by accurately measuring the exhaust output and adjust the fuel and spark for a proper efficient burn. The OBDI ECU's aren't so smart, they expect certain values and output what they've been programmed for, with some learning ability, but it's quite limited as we've seen from our experiences.

[fowljesse]

I was thinking that after gas, and putting the car on a boat, you'd end up spending more on a Probe, but could make the money back selling it. You should put the K8 in the Probe, and sell it as a "Gas Saver". That way you could make all your money back.

[Daninski]

Ok I'm confused, I thought the MX-6, Probe and 626 trannies were the same. That the MX-3 is geared (final gear) a little higher so your RPM's end up being a little higher on the hyway. Like I said you can possibly change the ECU for the Probe ECU just make sure the Probe is a 96 or newer right (OBD2).
Nd4SpdSe quote, the Mx-3's JE50 VAF combined with a KL31 or KL36 ECU is a match from the factory (in Japan) as well for 2.5L motors, so it's efficient and it operates the VRIS solenoids unquote. He can't use that combo on his car, it's OBD2. Martin Up. Also the second set of sensors are not O2 sensors they're O2 monitoring sensors. I don't use mine and it's running in closed loop which is good.

[Nd4SpdSe]

I was thinking that after gas, and putting the car on a boat, you'd end up spending more on a Probe, but could make the money back selling it. You should put the K8 in the Probe, and sell it as a "Gas Saver". That way you could make all your money back.

Ya, but with the heavier Probe would make it less efficient than a K8 Mx-3, but marketing wise, it would probably sell.

Ok I'm confused, I thought the MX-6, Probe and 626 trannies were the same. That the MX-3 is geared (final gear) a little higher so your RPM's end up being a little higher on the hyway..

MX-3/Probe : 4.38:1
Mx-6/626 : 4.11:1 + Taller 5th gear

He can't use that combo on his car, it's OBD2.

On an OBDII Mx-3, you are required to run your K8 ECU, and you can keep the stock VAF, but it seems that the KL02 VAF helps it runs better.

Like I said you can possibly change the ECU for the Probe ECU just make sure the Probe is a 96 or newer right (OBD2). [...] Also the second set of sensors are not O2 sensors they're O2 monitoring sensors. I don't use mine and it's running in closed loop which is good.

Possibly. I've never heard of anyone ever even attemping it to see if it works. It may plug in, but who's to say the wiring itself is different. I've never looked into it, and I think that most people with OBDII Mx-3's dont even bother with the swap nevermind actually experimenting with it and trying to improve on it.

I've always was told they were all 02's. Still, why would you run them in a closed loop? Obviously they're there to monitor the system one way or another. The OBDII system is still smart enough to compensate without them obviously, but it still would be a good idea to keep them on, no?







Also the second set of sensors are not O2 sensors they're O2 monitoring sensors. I don't use mine and it's running in closed loop which is good.[/quote]

[Daninski]

OK, in closed loop the ecu is getting input from the sensors and correcting fuel accordingly. In open loop it's basically making a best guess as to what the fuel should be. Open loop is usualy how it runs when you first start the motor untill the O2 sensors heat up (very short time of course). As far as the Probe ECU goes I wouldn't do it. The injectors being bigger is a good point but remember, when the O2 sensors show a rich running situation they'll correct. My ZE runs pretty well, the exhaust dosen't smell overly rich. Of course if Ryan would just get off his a-- and have his buddy do a chip for 96-97 it wouldn't be an issue at all would it. lol

EDIT: The Dealer told me they were O2 sensor monitoring sensors. Different p/n. And besides at $250 bucks each they can blood well stay out.

[OutlaW]

i have made up my mind, and it's only for money-saving reasons ...
I am going to buy a Ford Probe V6 GT in Spain ( 2130$ ), drive it back to Portugal ( 213$ ) and deliver it to my auto-shop
Then ill remove the engine : KLDE, the ECU, the clutch and maybe the tranny... ( 284$ ) = 2650$
that way i can save a lot of money , because it's more expensive to get the engine( 2416$ ) +clutch( 200$ ) +tranny( 710$ ) +ecu( 600$ ) imported to my house = 3950$

[OutlaW]

thanks guys, finally i am gettin some real answers ... instead of just "get a ze" bs ...

btw

I was thinking that after gas, and putting the car on a boat, you'd end up spending more on a Probe, but could make the money back selling it. You should put the K8 in the Probe, and sell it as a "Gas Saver". That way you could make all your money back.

putting the car in a boat ? jesse, come here ... point me Portugal in this map ... now point me Spain ... BOAT ? do u want to get detention ? lolol

I have a new tranny in my MX3, but i got a 1.8 tranny ...
I really think that the option of getttin a Probe and bring it here to get dismantled is the best one.
I am going to save a lot of money

[Flyer]

Then you make some money back by parting out the Probe...

[fowljesse]

OMFG
I got it mixed up with your posts in another thread, where you mentioned getting an engine, or car in Europe on the mainland, and how much it would cost.
I'm really not dumb just confused
Would the jury please strike my earlier comment from the record?

[fowljesse]

I think you'd make the same money back, and save alot of effort by selling the Probe with the K8. There's plenty of people who wouldn't care, or would like it that way.