What Engine Could Replace the KLZE?

[fowljesse]

Honestly, for the cost/ time, building a ZE, DE or G4 is the best idea IMHO. You can relatively easily get 200 streetable WHP N/A, without adding weight. Then you're at the same weight/ HP ratio as some great sports cars. You can drop any engine in with enough money, but I don't think that's the point.
Then, for acceleration and handling, you can mod the rest of the car. My car isn't the fastest on the street, but I can hold my own if I want to, and I love driving it.

[wytbishop]

At the end of the day, the real limiting factor for us gaining any sort of real big power is the fact that we're FWD.

As for Dan's original point, I don't think there's a big issue with importing Ze's just because they're old. the fact is that when they come over in a container they are usually very recently removed from the car they were in overseas. the bigger problem is that they are starting to get harder to find, but I think we are the last group of owners who are really going to be installing them in large numbers. I think the demand for the ZE is dwindling along with the popularity of the MX-3/Probe/MX-6 and all the other wierd little niche cars that occasionally get one.

[MrMazda92]

RWD anybody?
http://www.mx6.com/forums/general-autom ... maybe.html

http://archive.difflock.com/discus/mess ... 1142335019

Also, if Dan from ProbeTalk ever finishes his "RWD Project", then we'll have another angle of attack.
Without raising the car above stock height, you'll probably be forced to have a fugly drivetrain tunnel going from front to back. Either that, or widening the exhaust tunnel, replacing the fuel tank with a small cell in the hatch, and running side exit exhaust farther forward.

For what it's worth, FWD cars can handle the power just fine... Will it be ideal for drag racing? No. Can it still throw you back into your seat and give you the ride of your life? Yes. People have raced high power FWDs before, granted it's not the best platform compared to RWD or AWD, but it'd still be fun you know?

The biggest limitation for us is the transmission, in my opinion... Which would be solved if we pick an engine that comes pre-mated with a beefier one.

Duratec(or similar) engine, Custom motor/trans mounts, custom axles, and standalone EMS?

Cheaper than a junkyard DE + turbo setup. A little spendier than a low mile KLZE.
Compared to the cost of a built transmission that could stand even a low boost KL? No contest... It's not that bad of an idea, if someone has the money to invest in the project.

We have some VERY knowledgeable and creative minds here... I imagine we could figure something out.

[Josh]

In all honesty with the OBDII conversion harness being sold on MX6 forum right now for 100 bones you cant go wrong. I would think of a MS3 engine and trans but my guess is that they are too tall, so you would have to go with a front mount IC and even then it may be a tad too tall. the Duratec I think would be the coolest. there is a guy who swapped one into his MX but it was into the rear of the car.

and if you go RWD a Ford ranger or B2200 trans bolts up. real benefit would be swapping out the center shaft and bell housing to a RX turbo II trans. But really though with being a FWD platform it would be easier and far better to run a rear mounted trans with a center shaft running down the tunnel like I did for my AWD set up. If I were to make the MX RWD that is how I would do it. UNLESS I had like a 2nd gen RX for parts to take the tunnel and such.

The other option would be a Evo AWD drive train swap with a KLZE...

[wytbishop]

The problem is that basically anything but the ZE is going to take a ton of custom work and be really expensive. I think the way to go in the future will be to find a ZE, even a used one from someone else's Probe or MX-3 project and build it. With the right turbo you can get 250 very comfortable HP. If you build the engine right and care for it properly it will last longer than the car.

That is the route I'm going to take when I rebuild the Black Beast next year. I think I will buy myself a new daily driver and then spend a year or so doing the beast from the ground up. That way I know that the body and the engine will both last another 10 years. The problem is going to be the running gear. Tie rods, ball joints, shocks. That stuff will get very hard to find down the road. I"m going to try to do all that stuff new this time so that it will hopefully last 10 years.

[Redline322]

Both the Vulcan and the Duratec 3.0l look like they'll fit, with most of the modding would be for motor mounts and rewiring.
Vulcan:



Duratec:




The duratec 3.0l supposedly bolts up to the 2.5l duratec trans from the contour and cougar and they all seem to have a low hood line. There are a few aftermarket companies dealing with them as well, so it might be the best option.

[Josh]

yeah but still OBD II. nothing will be as plug and play as the ZE. If I were to do it I would try and find a FEDOHC. still looking and have not seen one in more than a year. has just as much HP as a DE out of a I4 and can take upwards of 700 WHP in stock form. that's a 4 banger any boy can love.

But the Duratec looks to be the best option. Looking at the pics above it looks like the only area of concern would be the rad

[crazycanadian]

I was looking at doing a duratec swap when I spun the rod bearing in my DE... OBDII isn't that hard to work with... I actually find it a lot easier then OBD1... The only thing that held me back was the $1200 I had all ready invested in my KAAZ diff....

[Redline322]

The rad from the taurus has the inlet and outlet in a similar style as the 4 cyl mx3 rads, but only a bit larger. The taurus rad is 28.25x14.62x1 with 1.5" inlet and outlet vs. 27.25x13.75x1 with 1.38" inlet and outlet for the 4 cyl mx3 rad.

[crazycanadian]

The rad from the taurus has the inlet and outlet in a similar style as the 4 cyl mx3 rads, but only a bit larger. The taurus rad is 28.25x14.62x1 with 1.5" inlet and outlet vs. 27.25x13.75x1 with 1.38" inlet and outlet for the 4 cyl mx3 rad.

Its not just the core size you need to look at but also the core thickness as well... Usually a 4 cylinder rad will only be a thin core.. Where as a V6 rad will be thicker.. A 4 cylinder mx3 rad most likely wont be able to handle anything more then daily driving or a little spirited driving..

[Redline322]

Both are single cores 1" thick, but you could always mount 2 slim fans to keep it cool or modify the rad support so the taurus one fits. It's only 1" longer and 1" taller, so it's not like it is a big roadblock in preventing the swap. The bottom supports could easily be lengthened and you'd just need to notch the passenger side for the lower inlet. If I didnt find my klze for cheap, this is the way I would have went.

[Nd4SpdSe]

RWD anybody?

Oh god, don't get started on RWD conversions....

[MrMazda92]

Nd4Spd, it was kind of a joke... It'd be cool, but my disposable income makes it a pipedream.

I WOULD however like to keep looking into the Duratec as a possibility. I remember my ex's 2000 Taurus being a kick in the pants for a sedan... It was faster than a K8 MX-3, that's for sure...

My biggest problem I see with the KL/BP > Everything argument... Is that it's really KL/BP + Boost > Everything...
How is it so hard for people to understand, that not everyone wants a turbo or supercharger?

As for the OBDII debate, I figure anyone investing the time/energy/money into a Duratec(or other non conventional) V6 swap will probably either go with aftermarket EMS, or make an adapter similar to that currently sold on MX6.com, it's a safe assumption at least...

It's not easy, anyone can see that... If all you want is easy, swap a KLDE and quit trying to derail others. -.- Reminding people of the costs is one thing, but constantly nay-saying innovation is just counter productive, and serves no purpose other than holding people back.

Money is my own limiting factor for my car projects, I make less than probably 90% of the membership. Am I settling for "good enough", or am I trying to push forward and add to the community?

I could save up $800 and swap an imported KLZE with an Exedy clutch and never do a moment of research again in my life, so should I just do that so nay-sayers can pat themselves on the back and carry on with the "Sorry bud, that's more money than I personally would like to spend, so nobody should take the initiative." attitude.

I shouldn't let this bug me, but I honestly can't stand it. If you don't want to do it to your own car, and attempting it will not endanger anybody but the experimenter themself, then kindly turn your attention elsewhere.
It's one thing to say "That isn't safe..." or "It's possible, but it'll cost a lot of money.", but to say "It's too hard" and "If Formula1 doesn't do it, it's a waste of time." is just a waste of time.

Forget what I said about a 4 door sedan being my next car... When I find a cheap GS without a sunroof, and no rust, I'm building an MX-3 with a non K series V6. If I fail, or give up because of rising costs, so be it. At least someone will have put in more effort than "Oh darn, it's not bolt-in..."

The Duratec engines/trannies are easier to find than a KLG4, and parts are a hell of a lot cheaper. There's also more aftermarket support, sad as that is, so it'll be that much more worthwhile in the long run.

[Daninski]

I lost my 'Dream Garage' so I have no place to work on another project right now but the whole duratec deal sounds good, of course you would have to swallow the fact it's a FORD engine. Hey, on the positive side you could paste on a couple of those cool,,Mr FoMoCo decals.

[MrMazda92]

Well I'm going to be moving as soon as possible, and I'm not settling for a place without a garage again.

I can't determine whether or not it's a Ford, or Mazda engine... According to Wikipedia it's a Ford Engine, that was used in Mazdas. So they did a 180 after the K series?

Anyways, it looks like there's a 240 BHP Duratec that was used in the Ford Fusion, but it'll be harder to find than the 200 BHP variant commonly seen in the Mercury Sable, and occasionally in the Ford Taurus.

I can't help but wonder though, how much power the Ford Fusion tranny can hold, if it was designed with 240 BHP in mind...