KLZE driving me crazy

[Silkwyrm]

I was going to give this info to a dealership, and have them diagnose the issue. But as a matter of pride I'd rather not pay someone to work on it since so far I can say I'm the only person to wrench on it since I got it. If anyone has ideas on what my problem may be I'd appreciate hearing them.


I have a modified 93 MX-3 SE and I’m having problems.
• It idles rough
• Eventually once the engine has heated up, it starts to sputter and dies. And can’t be started again till it’s cooled off. (tested IAC according to the manual and it seems to be good.)
• It starts hard, the starter often won’t turn over for 2 or three turns of the key then eventually it catches and turns over, and if the battery is even a little low it is much harder and needs to be jump started.
• The charging system doesn’t seem to be charging the battery. But this may be just that I can’t let it run for a long enough time for the battery to get a significant charge.
• The automatic seat belts don’t work, occasionally I hear a buzzing clicking noise from the motor for this, it may be causing a power draw that is causing my charging problems.
• CEL indicates an error with the Knock sensor, I have replaced this with a brand new one, and still get the error, I ran new wiring from the sensor to the ECU and still get the error.
• A while ago before the engine died while testing, the gauge cluster died, it eventually started working again, and then a couple days ago it died again and has not started working again.


I’ve done quite a bit to the MX-3 so the problems could be almost anything.

• The 1.8 liter K8 has been removed and swapped with a Japanese 2.5 liter KLZE engine.
• Swapped the Automatic transmission with Manual from a ’92 MX-3
• Wired the neutral safety switch to the switch on the clutch.
• KLZE intake manifold was modified to Take ERG components from the K8 and to use a 2nd coolant temp sensor located near the fill cap.
• The Alternator was swapped with a larger alternator from the Mazda Millenia (alternator tested good and charging problem was occurring prior to the alternator swap.
• Relocated the Battery to the rear using an Optima Red Top.
• Installed Headers and hi flow exhaust
• Homemade cold air intake.
• ECU is a Performance modified ECU designed for the KLZE in a Ford Probe. (however have also tried 2 stock ECUs from an MX-3 and one from a Probe GT. Online Forums say it will run fine with these just not as well as one setup for the KLZE)
• Knock sensor is throwing an error, I replaced it with a brand new one and still got the error, I replaced and tested the wiring from the sensor to the ECU, and still get the error.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rik

[Daninski]

First off, has the engine acted like this since the swap?
Next question?
Have you set your TPS. http://www.mx-3.com/manuals/showimg.php ... F2-153.gif
Additionally, is it dying when warm because the idle wasn't set to 650rpm with TEN and gnd jumped? Also have you made sure you bled all the air out of the coolant and filled it completely. Thanks

Oh ya one more thing. Get that alternator tested, sound s like it's bad.

On a more positive note, 'February 21 2002', your almost a dinosaur here.

[Silkwyrm]

On the Dino thing, thanks, something else to make me feel old I joined when I got my first MX-3 GS, had big plans but no money. So now almost a decade later I still don't have a running KLZE which was the dream since way back then. The good news is I've only been working on the KLZE for about a year. And the New SE body came from Las Vegas so 0 rust, as apposed to my original GS from Wisconsin which died from the evil brown cancer.

I think I can say yes the engine has acted like this since the swap, though sometimes it seemed a bit better sometimes a bit worse.

I confirmed the TPS had continuity at idle and that with the slightest bit of throttle it lost continuity. Since the problem is at idle to begin with I figured that will be good enough. I did finally buy a feeler guage, I'll set it properly this weekend but I dont think that would have an effect. Am I wrong?

Idle was set with TEN and GND jumped but cant get it to 650, its at 700 and idle was set according to the manual as well.

Alternator was tested. and good unless Autozone is lying to me.

Thanks
Rik

[crazycanadian]

I was going to give this info to a dealership, and have them diagnose the issue. But as a matter of pride I'd rather not pay someone to work on it since so far I can say I'm the only person to wrench on it since I got it. If anyone has ideas on what my problem may be I'd appreciate hearing them.


I have a modified 93 MX-3 SE and I’m having problems.
• It idles rough
• Eventually once the engine has heated up, it starts to sputter and dies. And can’t be started again till it’s cooled off. (tested IAC according to the manual and it seems to be good.)
• It starts hard, the starter often won’t turn over for 2 or three turns of the key then eventually it catches and turns over, and if the battery is even a little low it is much harder and needs to be jump started.
• The charging system doesn’t seem to be charging the battery. But this may be just that I can’t let it run for a long enough time for the battery to get a significant charge.
• The automatic seat belts don’t work, occasionally I hear a buzzing clicking noise from the motor for this, it may be causing a power draw that is causing my charging problems.
• CEL indicates an error with the Knock sensor, I have replaced this with a brand new one, and still get the error, I ran new wiring from the sensor to the ECU and still get the error.
• A while ago before the engine died while testing, the gauge cluster died, it eventually started working again, and then a couple days ago it died again and has not started working again.


I’ve done quite a bit to the MX-3 so the problems could be almost anything.

• The 1.8 liter K8 has been removed and swapped with a Japanese 2.5 liter KLZE engine.
• Swapped the Automatic transmission with Manual from a ’92 MX-3
• Wired the neutral safety switch to the switch on the clutch.
• KLZE intake manifold was modified to Take ERG components from the K8 and to use a 2nd coolant temp sensor located near the fill cap.
• The Alternator was swapped with a larger alternator from the Mazda Millenia (alternator tested good and charging problem was occurring prior to the alternator swap.
• Relocated the Battery to the rear using an Optima Red Top.
• Installed Headers and hi flow exhaust
• Homemade cold air intake.
• ECU is a Performance modified ECU designed for the KLZE in a Ford Probe. (however have also tried 2 stock ECUs from an MX-3 and one from a Probe GT. Online Forums say it will run fine with these just not as well as one setup for the KLZE)
• Knock sensor is throwing an error, I replaced it with a brand new one and still got the error, I replaced and tested the wiring from the sensor to the ECU, and still get the error.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rik

Disconnect the vacuum line to your EGR valve first and plug it... see if that clears things up.... If that doesn't work, Block the EGR valve off... and see how that work... My KLDE swap acted the same way when I bought the car... The original owner was baffled as well.. Turned out he had some how never installed the egr control solenoid and ran the vacuum lines to the release solenoid... This caused the EGR valve to be commanded on at idle and at the wrong times while driving... The car idled ruff, wouldn't start when hot, stalled and had a miss fire that got worse while cruising...

There is a good chance since you are trying to run an EGR on a KLZE swap that your custom PCM wont be set up for it... Keep an eye on this... You should be able to test this once you get things hooked up right with a vacuum gauge teed into the vacuum line for the EGR valve...

Alternator not charging could be no voltage on the signal line for the field... You'll need to trace your wiring and check it...

It sounds like you have a lot of wiring problems....

[Ryan]

First of all, the dying-when-hot screams distributor. I'd try a known working one.

Try doing a proper tune up. Set TPS with a feeler gauge, make sure your throttle cable has enough slack, Ignition timing w/ a timing light, idle speed.

Get the battery and alternator charged/checked.

Knock sensor code can be thrown from the rough idle, poor ignition timing, or a normal faulty part/wiring. Don't worry about this just yet, figure out the other stuff. This code will cause the car to run in some variant of limp mode, but you'll only notice higher up in the RPM's.

Auto seatbelts have a recall on them, if its never been done before on teh car, your stealership HAS to do it. Search on here for the recall number and other info...

Dying cluster is odd, I have no idea what would cause that. METER fuse is the usual culprit, but that doesn't make sense here.

[Silkwyrm]

Thanks a lot guys, a possible EGR issue sounds very promising didn't think to check that. I was aware of the seat belt recall I put that in there kind of as a reminder to have them fix it, and because it may be draining my battery during what little time the car gets to run. Really hope this is an EGR issue. If I remember right some people said they passed emission testing without it. Can anyone confirm that?

Thanks again,
Rik

[Daninski]

Does your state have any kind of HotRod status E Test for cars running different from stock engines?

[Silkwyrm]

Unfortunately unless its a kit car or a car I built from the ground up, or a car older than 1980 something, it doesn't qualify for the Hot Rod/ Custom vehicle classifications and still has to have normal emission testing. So if disconnecting the EGR fixes my issue I'll just try and get it through emissions and if it fails I'll have to figure out what was wrong with the way I had the EGR setup.

Thanks
Rik

[Silkwyrm]

Just an update. It seems that my biggest issue is that I was dumb. It was the charging issue that seems to have been the cause of most of the issues I had. I started trouble shooting the system and realized I had run the new wire on the Millennia alternator (which is supposed to go to a switched 12volt supply) to the ignition post on the starter. Hey its switched power! for the 2 seconds that the key is in the start position. So that was dumb number 1. Fixing this issue got the battery charging very well and resolved the the issue of the car stalling. Apparently with the battery running the car and no power coming from the alternator it eventually gets to weak to keep running that's why it would sputter and die. Then next day I'd want to work on it I'd have the battery freshly charged at autozone the night before. So it would run again for a while then die. Dumb number two, with the engine running long enough to really get the tuning dialed in I could hear the engine knocking. So the knock sensor was probably good all along, and just doing its job saying theres a problem. After thinking about it for a while I think when I last put fuel in the tank I went with the "Silver" mid grade gas instead of Premium probably a dumb thing to do in a high compression engine. After pouring in some Champion Octane Boost the knocking seems to have gone.

Took the car to get emissions tested, figured just to be safe I'd try the Acetone thing. It seems like it might have worked my CO readings were good but still failed because my NO was just a bit too high. So figuring that out should be the last step in getting everything running great. Thanks for the help guys.