K8 rebuild question

[valk1317]

Hey guys. long time lurker first time poster.
I spend most of my time over at 247 as i drive a MSP. wife has a 92 mx3 GS v6 and im starting to do a little work on it to keep it kicking.
no big power goals for it since its a automatic and she doesn't wanna learn stick, but i might stick some headers and exhaust on it, new intake, lowering springs ect.
Gonna repaint it for sure the stock teal but instead of metal flake, ad a pearl mid-coat to it.

fun stuff.

but the car smokes horribly on cold start. seems to go away after its warmed up a bit. it knocks and sounds like it has a rod knock *not lifter tick* that gets worse if you blip the throttle.

Otherwise though, the car runs pretty well. has plenty of pep but just ticked over to 239,000 km and im considering doing a rebuild on it.

seen a lot of threads droping klze's in these but i wont be doing that. this is an economy car first and foremost and at most i want it to look clean and be a reliable DD. so my options are trying to find a KLDE or a rebuild a kit for the K8.

Can a KLDE swap right in without additional equipment or will i need additional sensors, or the ecm for a mx6/626?

id prefer to keep a k8 since it gets exceptional gas mileage, but i cant find a rebuild gasket/bearing kit for it. does it share the bearings with a KL engine?

Im a noob to this car kinda. nice car to drive though its definitely not my msp hah. though Im seriously considering doing a KLDE-T swap on my msp when i pop the motor

Thanks in advance. trying to keep this overall build on the cheap if i can. the wife doesn't drive this car like i drive my msp.

[Nd4SpdSe]

seen a lot of threads droping klze's in these but i wont be doing that. this is an economy car first and foremost and at most i want it to look clean and be a reliable DD.

Why do you think there's a difference between a KLDE or KLZE in terms of economy and reliablity? Most people see an improvement in fuel economy when swapping to a KL. Most that don't are because they half-assed or cheaped out on doing the swap, however there are a few exceptions of people on here that I have no idea why their milleage isn't as it should be.

Can a KLDE swap right in without additional equipment or will i need additional sensors, or the ecm for a mx6/626?

Upgraded Clutch, ECM/VAF from a 626/mx6/Probe

since its a automatic and she doesn't wanna learn stick

With an automatic, no KLDE or KLZE for you.

[valk1317]

I don't see any reason i couldn't get a kl anything into the car and not run an automatic transmission. the worst case would be swapping to a 626 or mx6 v6 ecm with an automatic tranny. or worse even, swapping to a tranny from said cars with the harness and ecm, splicing it to work on the mx3 for accessories.


Id like to avoid that though. the kl has more support but adding 700 cc's is definitely gonna effect the mileage.

does anyone know if the main/rod bearing sets work on both engines? everything ive seen says the upper gaskets/seals/waterpump ect are the same.
I just wanna restore this car so it doesnt smoke and will last a few years.

[Nd4SpdSe]

The K8 trans will not handle the KL power, and you cannot get the KL automatic trans to work in an KL Mx-3...both have been tried. I don't remember why you can't use a KL trans, but you can search for that info if you wish.

Adding 700cc doesn't usually negatively affect the mileage since the engine isn't working as hard, unless you have a heavy foot. There's a bunch of fuel economy threads, but me and the local guys used to regularly get 500-600kms on a tank highway. (Mine was around 500km because my shitty aftermarket tanks only held 31L). I think my average highway mileage was about 32-33mpg and by no means did I hypermile it...I enjoyed that ZE every day. My mileage did go down using the Probinator instead of the KL36, but that was about a 30km hit on a tank highway.

No idea on the internal bearings. Almost no one will touch the internals of a K8 cause it's not worth the money, and by almost no one I mean you'll find only like 2-3 that have. The guys that do have only done it because they have connections to get work done and parts for cheap/free, otherwise they wouldn't of done it.

[valk1317]

bleh. all i wanna do is rebuild this motor. new bearings, new seals ect. im not building it for any kind of power. and the kl is only like 30hp more than a k8 so i don't see why the tranny couldn't handle it. people are boosting protege automatics to 8 psi and 250 hp and they live, which are similar trannies.

I might consider a kl swap but there shouldnt be any reason i couldnt run a KLDE instead of a KLZE with the right supporting equipment. and failing that, megasquirts are real cheap.

ill read around some more. =)

[EggyRollz]

That 30 HP makes a huge difference. Also the KLDE is more reliable than the K8 the KLZE produces ( some say 195 & 200 & 205 ) so take your pick.

[Nd4SpdSe]

First it's not the horsepower but the torque. You're going from 115ft-lbs to 165ft-lbs (both ZE and DE), that's 50ft-lbs more, almost 50% more! You could rebuild it if you want, that's a possiblity, but the way you were talking was for building it for more performance, but for the amount of money in parts you'd spend in rebuilding a K8, it would be hard to validate it. Another option would be to pop in a K8ZE, an extra 5hp over the domestic K8, but would allow you to keep everything you have)

I doubt the Protege's are using similar trannies....those are 4cyl's not V6's.Also search around, you'll find out that those automatics aren't that strong and are usually the first thing to give on those cars.

but there shouldnt be any reason i couldnt run a KLDE instead of a KLZE with the right supporting equipment.

What are you talking about? Those motors are basically the same except for slight internal differences that give the ZE it's extra 30hp. Installing a KLDE in an Mx-3 is the exact same as installing a KLZE into an Mx-3, which is exactly the same as installing a stock K8 into an Mx-3. Supporting mods are both the same no matter if it's a KLZE or KLDE with the slight exception of ECU choice, but people run KLDE ECU & VAF on a KLZE motor and that's actually a good combination and usually cheaper than picking up a KL31/KL36 ECU

[SpatialTerror]

seems like you want a long lasting reliable car that will get great gas mileage.
what ive found is klze on manual trans is the best way to go for that goal.
of course you will have to get a new clutch and ecu.
but its totally worth it.
yes the motor swapps right in.
to do a auto to manual swap is a bit of work and will require some part swapping.
but in the end its totally worth it.
me in your position i would do everything i just said.
and just from doing this your turning your car from pretty much a 17sec 1/4mile car to a 14sec car.
and for as much as it would cost you to rebuild the k8 you can buy a klze, water pump, timing belt, and ecu.

[Nd4SpdSe]

manual trans is the best way to go[...]
to do a auto to manual swap is a bit of work and will require some part swapping.
but in the end its totally worth it.
me in your position i would do everything i just said.

its a automatic and she doesn't wanna learn stick

[Ryan]

KL and K8 auto are not interchangeable. Same pattern, but the KL atx uses a totally different mount system that is not supported by the MX-3 frame.

So, I guess rebuild K8 it is for you. Its not a bad motor.

Maybe cheaper to find a lower K K8 though..

The most important thing is that you flush the trans, and install a trans cooler. That will keep it alive as long as possible.

[valk1317]

If this car becomes mine, ill totally do a 2.5 swap on it with mtx for a track slut. but its her car for now and i just wanna fix the rod knock and leaky valve stems for now. the car runs pretty well overall and i highly doubt im gonna find a lower milage k8 that's worth buying.
most of them seem to smoke just as bad as hers does ha ha.

im just taking a guess at whats wrong with it even. might be somthing like bad rings even and i wont know until i crack it open.

would suck to sell it for like 1k though. overall its a pretty good little car in good shape. she has put some dings in it, but im gonna put a fresh coat of paint on it and pound out some dents.

not gonna lie, haven't worked on it a whole lot. though im really interested in it because im considering a klde swap for the msp when my stock boost kills it heh.

[mxmikey]

I'd try to look on here for a good K8 someone took out to put a KL in, and while its out slap a timing belt and water pump on.

[valk1317]

would have to be a canadian seller. shipping anything into canada is rape. if i baught a klze on ebay or a import shop, sure id pay $700 for the motor but another $250+ in shipping and duties.
a used motor from another user wouldn't be that much better.

as nice as the motors are they are still used and i have no idea what condition there are in really.

i hunted around ebay for a few kits and found a full gasket kit, timing/waterpump kit and somone who stocks rod/main bearings. I can rebuild this k8 mechanically for $250 and a couple days in my carport.
ill do a compression test to make sure i don't need new rings or anything.

now a rod knock; does that come from a spun rod bearing or would i need to replace the rod?
and do KL injectors fit the k8? i might look for a lower mileage set.

Ive done some low end work on cars but none of them ever had anything actually busted hah.
Part of this project is to get more comfortable with engine building too.

Ill talk to that guy who built his k8 if he is still around.

[SpatialTerror]

well could you provide us with a link. because most of anything on ebay is cheap crap.
but you might of just found a great deal.

[valk1317]

Waterpump/timing belt

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/93-94-MA ... ccessories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


this was the full gasket kit

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-94-MA ... ccessories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

bearings

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/92-94-MA ... ccessories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



I certainly wouldn't buy these to rebuild my msp motor, but if i could get cheap parts to make this k8 stop smoking,and run like stock, all good.

I might post a vid of how its running and get some input on it if you guys could help. It knocks at all engine speeds and runs excessivly rich on cold start. puts out a nice cloud.