Finally visited a dyno. Apparently running super rich. :(

[Whisper]

ZE with Millenia mani, SSA headers, 2.5" pipes, CAI, Probinator.

Went to CarbConn - these are respectable guys, and I'm guessing their dyno is pretty honest. I put down around 143 whp. Curve is smooth, BUT apparently my mixture is super rich, like literally off the charts (half way through RPM range their equipment can't even read it anymore), and it's costing me power. What's up with that? Is it normal? Seems odd that I'd be running that rich. I know these cars are designed to run a bit on the rich side, but what I got is well suspect.

Is there anything I should check out? FPR? MAF?

[onlytrueromeo]

Apparently there are alot of us out there having problems w/ running RICH w/ probinator. I will no longer be recommending it to people. Time for MS?!?

[solo_ryder]

I had a kl36 in my black car and it ran way richer then the probinator that replaced it. Verified this on a aem uego that I was running.

Whisper, are u running any codes? Check to see, even if u don't see a cel.

[Whisper]

Only code I have is for the coolant fan switch sensor, because I haven't yet had the chance to hook it up right.

Other than that, no codes. Everything seems to be running right, at least according to the ECU.

I didn't know other people were running so rich with Probinator. Innit based on KL31/36 map? Should be the same as J-spec cars, eh? Is it as rich as a ZE with stock MX-3 ECU?

I'm thinking of tuning the mixture with a basic piggyback. Don't want to go MegaSquirt, since I'm all stock internals and no boost.

[Mad Cow]

The probinator is based on the KL01 ROM apparently, so it's essentially a KL01 chip with KL31 maps and different VRIS. I tried both a KL31 and probinator chip and the probinator seemed to give better fuel economy and power.

And something just popped into my head, maybe the coolant temp sensor for the ECU is different between cars. Was the probinator chip tested on an mx6/probe or an mx3? Because I remember mine ran stinking rich when my coolant temp sensor didn't work properly.

[Whisper]

Hmm, that's interesting. I guess there's no way to test it other than to wire it in correctly and see... Could incorrect CTS really make it run rich?

[solo_ryder]

Well I was under the impression that the probinator chip was a modified version of the kl36 with slightly different fuel maps etc. When I had my kl36 ecu I ran between 10-11 af's under wot. Its possible it was lower then 10 but my uego only went as low as 10. Popped a probinator in and got between 11-13 iircm

Hm that is a interesting query. My cts is not hooked up either because my 94 harness, like yours whisper, does not have the 2nd sensor. I have however plugged the plug in and made wires long enough to reach the ecu. Its just a matter of puttin em through the grommit and finding the right pinouts to tap em in.

As for it effecting fuel mileage and running rich.. Yes it is possible as the ecu is not exactly thinking the engine is running top and could possibly run rich to be safe, its a theory but it is possible.

Are you going to the dyno again? It would be nice to see before and after comparisons.. Do you have a dyno prinout we could see?

[Redline322]

I know on the 4 cyl mazdas when the cts isnt working, the ecu thinks the car is still warming up and richens the mixture. I'd imagine the same thing is happening here.

[onlytrueromeo]

Hmm...I think I broke one of my cts or it was broken when i got my ze, and never bothered to fit it since i didn't get a code.

This is interesting...

Are there different part #'s for each of the temp. sensors? I know one is green and one is black or something like that, but rockauto doesn't seem to have a difference, at least I couldnt tell it. I will hafta look into this more!

[onlytrueromeo]

I ordered a new temperature sensor and temperature sender (apparently thats the difference between the 2) from rockauto. I should have the parts soon enough - I don't have a dyno, but I will let everyone know if it helps my mileage!

[solo_ryder]

Whats your mileage like now?

I want to get better mileage, I will also be able to test this soon.

As of now, my best is 410km on 35.8L of gas = 27mpg almost all highway

[onlytrueromeo]

I get like 21-25mpg mixed driving, highway isnt much better maybe 26 at the best, yeah I hammer on it around town on backroads, but I cruise on the highway at 60-75mph (depending on the highway speed limit) and I feel I should be hitting the 30's.

Also my car is def rich, I can smell it!

[Whisper]

Oh yeh, here's the pic. I guess it's 145 whp, but close enough.



As you can see the A/F ratio just dives at WOT, and then keeps going down, until it's below 10.

I think I'm going to try and connect the second CTS this weekend. Hope that works. Also, guys at CarbConn said they have a used APEXi VAFC they can sell me cheap, and maybe I can use that to fine tune.

I'll be doing another dyno run after that.

My fuel mileage is not too great. I can squeeze out 21 mpg if I drive very conservatively. Any action, and I'm below 20 mpg. It drinks fuel without much performance to show for it.

BTW, the temperature sender off RockAuto is not the second sensor - it's for the gauge. Main sensor is green, second sensor is black. You just have to buy sensors for a pre-94 model, and that way you'll get the right ones, I think.

[hgallegos915]

I got 162 whp with probinator and all bolt ons on an n/a ze 100 degree weather 4000 ft altitude...

I dont think its the ecu..

[Whisper]

All your coolant sensors hooked up and functioning right?

Because I don't really know what else it could be.