why do KL31/KL36's run rich?

[stoker100]

ive read now on here, MX6.com and PT that the ZE ECU's run rich, i have a ZE in a probe and a friend has one in a MX3, both run rich e.g. my dyno plot:
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm28 ... 132402.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

both of us were fouling plugs with the ZE ECU but not the DE ECU (a'f ratios are fine on the DE ECU) anway id like to quickly explain a few points so we dont go off track:
1) lots of people running KL31/KL36 ECU's with the JE50 VAF run quite rich
2) you cant make 197chp with an 11:1 a/f ratio so the stock JSPEC cars must be running leaner
3) there is nothing wrong with my car or my friends, neither of our cars have any related codes that would cause an issue (when on the DE ECU as the ZE one wont show codes)
4) yes you can get a AFPR and turn down the fuel pressure but you shouldnt have too, the extra fuel must be there for a reason, the ignition timing may also be pulled back because of the fuel.
5) there are 0 true JSPEC probes in SA so i cant simply compare easily.

something must be different to cause the ZE to run rich on these conversions does anyone know why?
ive also tried running a KL31.bin in a 93' KL07 ECU and in a KL36 ECU (im not new to ECU tuning) both ran rich leaving me to believe its more then just the maps that are different, it must be looking for a missing sensor or the pinouts must be different IMO, the car may even be batch firing injectors (havent tested it yet)

does anyone have a proper KLZE wiring diagram? (cant find one anywhere) any comments on this would be appreciated

[marcdh]

I don't know any answers but I'm very interested to see what you discover. My probinator chip has been even worse 10:1 at WOT.

One notable difference is the octane between Japan and USA in particular. Could the lack of knock resistance lead to the ECU dumping it in to be safe? I don't really think so, 95 is standard here, I've ran 97, 98. Having said that I didn't reset the ECU, but I'd be shocked if it really made a difference. I'm not too clued up on our cars ability to use the knock sensor to advance timing though or how versatile they are to 'learn'.

[stoker100]

ive ran the ZE on 98 (BP) for about 3 years non stop and i have to say if anything its been an improvement going down in octane more so then up. i really doubt due to this that its a fuel related issue but thanks for your input, i really hope to find something useful out as im ready to give up on the car.

[ninjajim4]

i would think it's due to running the je50 vaf instead of the maf that ZEs were intended to be run with

[marcdh]

Surely ZEd mx6s come with JE50s?

[Nd4SpdSe]

Only the "Millenia" curved-neck DE/ZE uses a MAF, but it also uses a different ECU too, and it's OBDII

JE50's are said to be what the KL31/KL36's are matted with stock.

Again, my experience is that my KL36 didn't run rich.

[stoker100]

my plugs look white too, you probably pulled them after normal driving correct? heres my plugs after normal driving, i replaced them a week after the dyno and they had traveled about 50km before i pulled them:
http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm28 ... plugsa.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[projectzemx3]

im poor and am still using my K8 ecu, it runs MEGA rich (blue smoke out the tail pipe) but ive never fowled any plugs. i really want a kl36/kl31 ecu but i have never heard of them running rich.


i am very interested in what you find out im going to keep my eye on this thread.

[Nd4SpdSe]

Lol, normal driving was never "easy" driving with that motor...was too much fun not too.

projectzemx3, fyi:

Black - Rich
Blue - Oil
White - Coolant

[Mad Cow]

im poor and am still using my K8 ecu, it runs MEGA rich (blue smoke out the tail pipe) but ive never fowled any plugs. i really want a kl36/kl31 ecu but i have never heard of them running rich.


i am very interested in what you find out im going to keep my eye on this thread.

I have a KL31 and probinator chip, if you want I can test them out and see which one I like more and sell you the other one for cheap.

[stoker100]

i have tired both the probinator and KL31/KL36, i think you will find the KL31/36 will run better down low (below 4000rpm) and the probinator will run better above above 4000rpm. this is mainly due to the probinator being a modified KL85.bin and not a proper KL31.bin, not every multiplier has been changed so while to probinator is better then stock (ZE timing/fuel maps) its still not the same as a KL31.

[Mad Cow]

What's the KL85.bin?

And I've heard of other chips on probetalk, what are they and how do they compare to the probinator chip or a real KL31 ECU?

[stoker100]

the KL85.bin is simply a stock ECU bin that probinator modified for the KLZE tune that people buy.
i havent turned down the fuel pressure using the KL36 ECU or KL31.bin so im not in a position to compare the two but i would say nothing can compare to the proper OEM equipment rather then a tune (if its running properly).

[Slammed6]

I still made 180 WHP with my KL-36 ECU with a 11.1 AFR But I had a HP Fuel pump, and thats why it bumped my fuel pressure

[stoker100]

Slammed6, got a dyno printout?