Mississauga Mazda Meet Final Plans

[Bochek]

All I know is I am going to Lakeshore Promanade on that Saturday....

so does that mean your not comming?

Bochek

[jschrauwen]

This is not about me, you Mike or any other person that posts on here. We are the ones that usually participate. Does no one listen or read what I post??? Those of us posting in here make up less than 5 to 10 percent of the actuall attendees to MMM. You have to base all of planning around the other 80% to 90% of those that make up the attendance of these events. Therefore you must always ask yourself before any decision is made what would be the best for that segment and not solely from the postings made by a few in a thread. Again I'll repeat for a third time, there were no viable reasons for making it on Saturday. I AGAIN got no reasonable rebuttable as to the dismissals of all of my proposals in January. What is the point to soliciting input from members if they're all going to be disregarded. Every question that was put to me I answered directly and specifically, I was never returned the courtesy. Does it have to be my way??? => No it doesn't and it appears it won't. Is that the reason for the resistance? I was placing myself in the shoes of that 80% or so and took that perspective when posing the questions. Unfortunately, I guess that perspective was not self evident to those concerned. I will still be organizing the cruise for those attending from the east like I've always done in previous meets. That, I have some direct control over because of my geographical location. Even when doing so, those decisions are never cast in stone and are never inflexable to meet the demands of the greater good...... that would be selfish on my part.
If it's felt that it was for self serving reasons why I posed specific recommendations for the MMM, than those people don't know me very well at all. I put on more miles than any other member here in the past when attending events so please do not implicate me as being self serving. My work obligations and free time is not an issue with the timings of the MMM. Again, I was looking at the bigger picture and saw what appeared to be the most prudent approach to deal with the event (again, based on that 80%). If it's a question of pride and being unable to admit that an error or mistake was made, why not just say so. Shat, I do it all of the time. I'm human, make mistakes on a regular basis and have no heartache with admitting it openly either. I had no idea that moving it from Saturday back to Sunday would take a lot of hard work and would undo a lot of honest effort. I didn't realize that there was so much involved with moving it from Saturday back to Sunday. I hope there is a file or some sort of journal to document this logistical nightmare so that if perhaps I decide to do next years I'll know what I'm up against and can effectively deal with it like you guys.
Anyways, I'll start a thread in the next week or so to coordinate the timings and places for the eastern contingent to make it's way to the Promenade on Saturday. Cheers,
John

[jschrauwen]

All I know is I am going to Lakeshore Promanade on that Saturday....

so does that mean your not comming?
Bochek

Your kidding right?????? The Lakeshore Promenade is the MMM.

[mx3grlsikride]

Final details http://www.mx-3.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.ph ... 652#359652

[Bochek]

All I know is I am going to Lakeshore Promanade on that Saturday....

so does that mean your not comming?
Bochek

Your kidding right?????? The Lakeshore Promenade is the MMM.

right. that passed my mind, sorry bout that.

Bochek

[Devlin]

john, i would just like to answer your question of why....
the date has been set for months now, which allowed many people ample time to book the day off work if they were so required. many employers want weeks of notice because work schedules are set ahead of time.
if we were to all of a sudden change the date to sunday, everyone who booked the day off work gets screwed. some of them may not work sunday, but some of them might as well and at this point it could be too late to change their work schedule.
as you, i am not among those people, i am simply thinking of the other 80% as well. in fact i won't b able to attend because i found out my friend is getting married that same day, but it wouldn't be fair to change the date last minute (and yes 2 weeks is last minute for many ppl).
if you brought this subject up back in january, i can't answer why it wasn't addressed before; probably trying to accomadate people who work the following day, but that would have been the time to go on a rant, and not now.
the only thing it is accomplishing now is causing a commotion and making people think the meet is going to flop. the way this club seems to work is if people think something is going to flop, it will because no1 wants to bother.
the thing we all need to do it promote promote promote
say how great the meet and cruise is going to be no matter what.
we had over 30 cars last year....that's 3x more than our largest weekly meet.
the first year i was out when bone stock, there was at least that many.
i don't see it dwindling personally.
melissa has the right idea, everyone go to her thread to post attendance, but don't count those who post as the only attendees because most ppl who show up don't post, which is fine because they DO SHOW UP...and that's the only important thing.
she has prizes and pizza and a set-in-stone, unchangable schedule.
there is no more debate about details...the time has past.
any further posts about this meet will be positive and promotional.
get pics and video of the meet, show and cruise. send them to me and i'll see what i can do about adding it to the video from the ottawa meet and maybe even some footage from go-karting in the spring.
eventually (provided i get the sound working on my PC and some decent software....maybe some help from someone who knows what to do) i'll have a proper MX-3 DVD or at least good AVI to distribute for 2006.

[Nd4SpdSe]

Those of us posting in here make up less than 5 to 10 percent of the actuall attendees to MMM. You have to base all of planning around the other 80% to 90% of those that make up the attendance of these events. Therefore you must always ask yourself before any decision is made what would be the best for that segment and not solely from the postings made by a few in a thread.

The problem is that it's only speculation. What you think is right, what I think is right, or what anyone thinks is right is not necessarilly right. Organizing it as a group, and going with the majority should reflect the popular opinion of those who can't provide their input, it should all be relative.

Again I'll repeat for a third time, there were no viable reasons for making it on Saturday

Thay may or may not be my fault. I'm the one who said Saturday, for what reason, I dont even know, but no one, not even you posted anything against that day. So it was planned and organized for a Saturday. You mentioned that attendance has been going down for the MMM's, but again, MMM changed from a Saturday to Sunday 2 years ago, that could very well be a factor in why attendance had been affected. I guess we'll see...

Does it have to be my way??? => No it doesn't and it appears it won't. Is that the reason for the resistance? I was placing myself in the shoes of that 80% or so and took that perspective when posing the questions. Unfortunately, I guess that perspective was not self evident to those concerned.

That goes with what I said above.

If it's a question of pride and being unable to admit that an error or mistake was made, why not just say so. Shat, I do it all of the time. I'm human, make mistakes on a regular basis and have no heartache with admitting it openly either.

The only thing that I will admit to being a mistake is making it on a Saturday instead of a Sunday, expecially with plans of the cruise, but that's debatable because of the later evening and it being a work day the next day. It's a short sightedness that may or may not cost us, but we'll see.

As for location, I agree keeping with tradidtion. Besides, I dont believe that location will make or affect the meet. This is the 9th MMM, it's been happening for almost a full decade, this must mean something.

I hope there is a file or some sort of journal to document this logistical nightmare so that if perhaps I decide to do next years I'll know what I'm up against and can effectively deal with it like you guys.

I'm sure what ever happens, this will be remembered. If not, their always the search function I'm sure you, and I, and anyone who participated in organizating this event will remember what has transpired over the last few months.

You also have to look at it this way as well. MMM, in terms of the event, the last 8 years remained unchanged with the exception of switching between Sunday and Saturday. This was the first attempt at improving it without making it different that what it was. What we'll learn this year should definitely help us for next year. I don't see it being a failure, as long as the weather is good. If the weather is bad, than it will affect attendance, and we will not know forsure if what we did was good or bad.

I hate picking at your post and seem overly critical, but I'm just trying to make sence into the difference of opinions on the organisation and planing of MMM.

[jschrauwen]

There's nothing wrong with having a difference in opinions and points of view. It keeps each other honest and and it challenges our own integrity. Perhaps it may be because I don't view this event as a "Mississauga" event, but rather the large annual MX3 meet. A single meet dedicated to the MX3's that can be lauded as the main annual get together. I really couldn't care less if it were in tim-buck- too. All that mattered is that it was the "Annual Get Togther" and that it just so happens to carry this title called the MMM. There are countless organizations that will perpetuate a single location because it fits all of the necessities and requirements for that event. On the other hand there is just the opposite, where there is an annual event that is systematically switched/moved/rotated to different locales to satisfy other requirements, namely offering the unique benefits of the new locale to those who are regular attendees and recieve the added bonus of a fresh or different locale. In either case, each has it's own merit. Stop me anywhere along the way if I loose anyone on this or if you find it very difficult to comprehend.
I'm no master at organizing a car event but have attended and participated in numerous ones in the last 30+ years. I"ve been fortunate enough to see what appears to work and what really didn't not only here but in Europe and the US also.
As far as the Saturday / Sunday thing is concerned, I pushed myself away from the organizing issues months ago when every one of my suggestions/recommedations was sumarily shot down. I really wasn't given much incentive to be an active participant after that point since the powers to be were firm in their position on how it "Should Be". Not really realizing the potential pitfalls that could lie ahead. Tradition is good but doesn't go very far if there isn't other things to carry it along or keep it instep with current need and requirements.
What are those needs?
1. Well to me it appeared that there wasn't a lot of desireable areas available for those intending to BBQ at the Promenade.
2. There are no food concessions at that location.
3. Restrooms area bit of a hike for those who don't want to wander too far from their cars.
4. The Promenade is in the heart of a heavily populated area of Mississauga. Now that can be a good thing for the pedestrian traffic to view and admire our rides but I kind of thought that this event was for us and not primarily for the viewing public. I could be wrong on that one though.
4. Because of it's location in a densly populated area, it is most assuredly an extremely poor place to stage a cruise from. Something that appears to be a big highlight for some. This has now been confirmed since the staging area for the cruise starts more than 30km's away at Hutch's.
5. It's location so far away from any major highway artery again precipitates the need for attendees to traverse a lengthy portion of dense city traffic. Lets compound this by having it on a Saturday where one would probably see the most traffic congestion during any weekday.

My point is that perpetuating reasons to not alter or move the event because of tradition may be the exact reason for it's demise. Take a chance, step outside the box, dare to experiment and try something new. The best things in life are for those who choose to take the risk and be brave enough to leave old habits and securities behind. Be fresh, be creative, be adventerous and the rewards will be equalled.


As a sidebar, what would you think if it would have been held at Hutch's?
1. Large parking lot to accomodate all participants.
2. Right on Lake Ontario even closer than the Promenade.
3. Nightime lighting.
4. Fantastic access to main highway arteries.
5. Lots and lots of foot traffic for those who want to show off their cars.
6. An excellent food concession area within a hundred feet.
7. Decent restroom facilities with the consession area.
8. Ice cream concession area too....great for that hot summer day!!!
9. Outstanding spot to stage cruise as demonstrated by this years program.
10. Still centrally enough located for those members and even those just across the border too. BTW, has anyone posted this event on any of the US forums yet???????????????? Better not delay, there's still time to have our American friends join and even better if it were at Hutch's.
11. Is there any reason other than it's not Mississauga to use a place like Hutch's? If you had to pause and think for a second on that than you already answered my question.

Like I said, I threw that out there for food for thought. I'll see you guys at the Promenade. Just because i don't agree doesn't mean i can't be a supporting member in this event. Hell, how do you think the eastern connection is going to make it there safely in the first place. They need a seasoned road captain...right....LOL
See you all there.

[Bochek]

4. Because of it's location in a densly populated area, it is most assuredly an extremely poor place to stage a cruise from. Something that appears to be a big highlight for some. This has now been confirmed since the staging area for the cruise starts more than 30km's away at Hutch's.

the stageing location for the cruze is hutches.

we might have to alter the time line slightly to allow people more time to get there. but we will see.

Bochek

[jschrauwen]

the stageing location for the cruze is hutches.
we might have to alter the time line slightly to allow people more time to get there. but we will see.
Bochek

At least that's what I thought I read. Hey, I could be wrong on that too.

[Nd4SpdSe]

Perhaps it may be because I don't view this event as a "Mississauga" event, but rather the large annual MX3 meet. A single meet dedicated to the MX3's that can be lauded as the main annual get together. I really couldn't care less if it were in tim-buck- too. All that mattered is that it was the "Annual Get Togther" and that it just so happens to carry this title called the MMM. There are countless organizations that will perpetuate a single location because it fits all of the necessities and requirements for that event. On the other hand there is just the opposite, where there is an annual event that is systematically switched/moved/rotated to different locales to satisfy other requirements, namely offering the unique benefits of the new locale to those who are regular attendees and recieve the added bonus of a fresh or different locale.

I guess the tradition of MMM is held quite personal to myself. I've been to the last 3 (would of been 4, but I had just gotten my mx-3, and found out about the site only weeks afterwards). The title MMM is obvious due to it's location. One thing I kinda look at is chaning he location will more likely change it's name. People who we've never met before, or only see once a year usually show up to this meet, and they look specifically for when it is. One thing that really hit MMM hard was MOM's first ever event, they decide to have it on exactly the same day as MMM that year. Over the years, I've heard a few comments of MMM, and the two things was food and cruise, alot of people were disapointed that it was just a meet and that was it, that were was nothing else afterwards, which is why we got the idea for a cruise this year, try to keep the event what it is, but give attendee's what they wanted. There is nothing wrong with the totally different approaches you had, their actually great ideas, but it's not MMM.

4. Because of it's location in a densly populated area, it is most assuredly an extremely poor place to stage a cruise from. Something that appears to be a big highlight for some. This has now been confirmed since the staging area for the cruise starts more than 30km's away at Hutch's.
5. It's location so far away from any major highway artery again precipitates the need for attendees to traverse a lengthy portion of dense city traffic. Lets compound this by having it on a Saturday where one would probably see the most traffic congestion during any weekday.

4. Well, if were having a cruise, what difference does it make to drive to go driving? 30km is roughly a 15min drive, not far IMO. I've driven that route many many times, especially when I lived and worked in Mississauga, it was my main way back to Niagara. Mind you, that section is HORRIBLE in rush hour during the week, but weekends, although could be somewhat busy, is never congested. So far I haven't seen any signs of construction to start in that area, although it's been about a month since my last trip that way, but unless there is, traffic shoud not be a problem. Plus, a highway convoy will make for some good show and some nice footage of many cars together.
5. Not at all, it's about 10 minutes from the QEW. Exit Cawthra, so south, and turn left what what I believe to be the second of two set of lights. Head east and you'll pass maybe one or two set of lights. The promenade is on the right, at the lights just after the Tim Hortons. For food, on that small strech of Lakeshore, there's a Harvey's, a Tim Horton and a Pizza Pizza if i remember right. Any lot that isn't a parking lot for a mall/plaza and has a good scenery wouldn't normally be close to anything to eat and have facilities nearby, and visa versa.

Also, having it Sunday would coincide with the Tunerstyle 2 carshow

My point is that perpetuating reasons to not alter or move the event because of tradition may be the exact reason for it's demise. Take a chance, step outside the box, dare to experiment and try something new. The best things in life are for those who choose to take the risk and be brave enough to leave old habits and securities behind. Be fresh, be creative, be adventerous and the rewards will be equalled.

Although that could be true, but what right does one have to kill off an even that has been around almost as long at the Mx-3's have been around themselves. If we want to have something different, lets organise something different, we could call it whatever, the first annual J-Beef meet ior whatever we want, there's nothing stopping us from doing that. We could do that this year as starting our own event for a season closing since we don't technically have one. This is technically (unofficially) the season opener. One problem is that some Mx-3's aren't ready for the summer. People have all summer, and summer jobs to get their cars done, and we could have a end-summer meet for those who couldn't make it to MMM.

As a sidebar, what would you think if it would have been held at Hutch's?
1. Large parking lot to accomodate all participants.
2. Right on Lake Ontario even closer than the Promenade.
3. Nightime lighting.
4. Fantastic access to main highway arteries.
5. Lots and lots of foot traffic for those who want to show off their cars.
6. An excellent food concession area within a hundred feet.
7. Decent restroom facilities with the consession area.
8. Ice cream concession area too....great for that hot summer day!!!
9. Outstanding spot to stage cruise as demonstrated by this years program.
10. Still centrally enough located for those members and even those just across the border too. BTW, has anyone posted this event on any of the US forums yet???????????????? Better not delay, there's still time to have our American friends join and even better if it were at Hutch's.
11. Is there any reason other than it's not Mississauga to use a place like Hutch's? If you had to pause and think for a second on that than you already answered my question.

I believe Hutches has issues with car clubs using their lots. You may need to check with the ones local to that area on that information.

[jschrauwen]

I guess the tradition of MMM is held quite personal to myself. I've been to the last 3 (would of been 4, but I had just gotten my mx-3, and found out about the site only weeks afterwards). The title MMM is obvious due to it's location. One thing I kinda look at is chaning he location will more likely change it's name. People who we've never met before, or only see once a year usually show up to this meet, and they look specifically for when it is. One thing that really hit MMM hard was MOM's first ever event, they decide to have it on exactly the same day as MMM that year. Over the years, I've heard a few comments of MMM, and the two things was food and cruise, alot of people were disapointed that it was just a meet and that was it, that were was nothing else afterwards, which is why we got the idea for a cruise this year, try to keep the event what it is, but give attendee's what they wanted. There is nothing wrong with the totally different approaches you had, their actually great ideas, but it's not MMM.

Mike who cares if the name gets changed? I mean really?? It would be folly to believe that people attend the event because of the name. It may appear that way on the surface but would it not be more feasable that they would link that name to the large annual get together and that is what the motivator is. Not the name but because it's the largest annual MX3 meet - that's what they look forward too. Names are only that - just names. I mean did you rush to your first one because it was surrounded by the name Mississauga or because it was the largest gathering for MX3's? I'm glad to see that you've recognized that the MMM is not keeping up with meeting the needs of it's attendees and that there are those who have shown dissatisfaction with it's location. I saw this too, hence my winter recommendations. We all know now what happened to those suggestions, right? "Trying to keep the event what it is" Exactly what is that? I believe I just explained that above - it's the largest annual MX3 get together....right???? Well then, lets try to keep it that way. I'm on your side pon this, you just can't see it. I want to keep it the largest event too. Unfortunately, if in order to maintain that we need to move it or call it a different name, than who cares. As long as the members and attendees get the biggest bang for the buck so to speak. I'm pretty darn sure they won't give a rats a-- what the name is as long as it's a big MX3 blow-out. And it's that what your main aim is all along, and not trying to perpetuate a name but an event? An event that can be touted as the biggest annual event. If like you say the ideas I proposed in the winter were good, why were they dismissed? Sorry, I forgot - it would mean that the event would not be at the Promenade and I believe we've covered that area. "try to keep the event what it is, but give attendee's what they wanted" - has it occured to you that perhaps that those two aims may be in conflict with each other are are incompatable with each other? In other words, unable to successfully blend the 2 together. I believe that you have already proven that by having to stage the beginning of the cruise more than 30km's away.

4. Well, if were having a cruise, what difference does it make to drive to go driving? 30km is roughly a 15min drive, not far IMO. I've driven that route many many times, especially when I lived and worked in Mississauga, it was my main way back to Niagara. Mind you, that section is HORRIBLE in rush hour during the week, but weekends, although could be somewhat busy, is never congested. So far I haven't seen any signs of construction to start in that area, although it's been about a month since my last trip that way, but unless there is, traffic shoud not be a problem. Plus, a highway convoy will make for some good show and some nice footage of many cars together.

Mike I've also driven that route more times than I can remember since I grew up in Burlington and Stoney Creek. I know full well the congestion situation on Saturdays and the various routes one can take to get between them. I'm not sure why you would want to water down the point about having to drive 30km's to enjoy another segment of the event. It's structurally unsound to have to make attendees travel at least 30km's or busy traffic to participate in one of the events activities. You must admit that ther are will be a fair number of attendees that do not live or enjoy the prospect of congested city driving. It's not a pleasurable experience even for those that live in the city either. That said, there is no way one can minimize the fact that an attendee has to drive that distance just to enjoy one of the events activities........ it's just not good planning or thought out very well I think. A highway convoy on a Saturday in the summer through Mississauga, Oakville and Burlington. Growing up in Burlington, I know who ugly the QEW gets by the Ford plant and then later again by the Guelph Line / Brant Street areas. A convoy through there as being fun???? How about dangerous or on the other side of the coin very nerve racking and tediuos if there's the usual gridlocks.

5. Not at all, it's about 10 minutes from the QEW. Exit Cawthra, so south, and turn left what what I believe to be the second of two set of lights. Head east and you'll pass maybe one or two set of lights. The promenade is on the right, at the lights just after the Tim Hortons. For food, on that small strech of Lakeshore, there's a Harvey's, a Tim Horton and a Pizza Pizza if i remember right. Any lot that isn't a parking lot for a mall/plaza and has a good scenery wouldn't normally be close to anything to eat and have facilities nearby, and visa versa.
Also, having it Sunday would coincide with the Tunerstyle 2 carshow

Mike, I know exactly where it is, since I've been there many times before. You're right, it could take as little as 10 minutes from the QEW - best case scenario. Best case scenario would actually be a Sunday morning. Food??? There is no food availability at the Promenade. People cannot just make a 5 minute or less walk to any food outlets. One has to get in their car and drive there. Same goes for any beverages too. I would call that inconveniant and it's something that should be made mention to those travelling to the event or may be first time attendees. "Any lot that isn't a parking lot for a mall/plaza and has a good scenery wouldn't normally be close to anything to eat and have facilities nearby, and visa versa." I'm afraid I'd have to call you on that one too Mike. Hutch's has all that covered and more. Please Mike, the Tunerstyle 2 Carshow is geared primarily for GM cars. It's something that you just caught wind of from Tanya from Ponty Pool within hours of making this post. I really think your reaching on that one too. It's a non issue when it comes to competeing against the MX3's. I'm sure we can both agree on that. Who would want to flip a coin to take in some Sunfires and Cavaliers over the MX3's????? I mean really now???? Please???

Although that could be true, but what right does one have to kill off an even that has been around almost as long at the Mx-3's have been around themselves. If we want to have something different, lets organise something different, we could call it whatever, the first annual J-Beef meet ior whatever we want, there's nothing stopping us from doing that. We could do that this year as starting our own event for a season closing since we don't technically have one. This is technically (unofficially) the season opener. One problem is that some Mx-3's aren't ready for the summer. People have all summer, and summer jobs to get their cars done, and we could have a end-summer meet for those who couldn't make it to MMM.

Well Mike if the event isn't completely meeting the needs of it's attendees and is not keeping up to step the demands placed upon it, it needs to be corrected to keep it going. If you want to look at it in it's most negative way and call "killing it", then by all means. I'd rather always try to put a positive spin to it. Thje longer you keep holding on to this name, title tradition thing or whatever way you want to sugar coat it, the fact remains and you said it yourself is that it needs changes. We both agree on that. Will those changes entail moving it to a different location? - more than likely. Will it mean a name change too? - more than likely. Will this kill the MMM? - in your mind, more than likely, but that's a chosen decision on your part. Is this a bad thing? - not in my mind because you've taken the signs and signals presented and made the most prudent move possible to you to continue to provide an annnual MX3 event that is the largest gathering of MX'rs for the year. How bad can that be? No one will care if the name changes or the locale is moved - as long as it's fresh, entertaining and meets their needs. If you are clung to the perception that it will be killed off, then that's your perogative. I prefer to look forward to an annual MX3 blow-out and don't really care what it's name or title is. Is it so bad that the name would be changed to something else? Does it mean so much to you that it gets in the way of progress or it's ability to evolve? I don't think we want anything different. I think we both want the same thing. Having another event to compete against this one may mean that people might have to chose between either event which could spell even worse possibilities for both events. I thnk you and I can both agree that there just isn't enough interest to support two large annual MX3 blow-outs. I'm looking at an end of summer event that would be a completely different theme. As I mentioned last year, I was considering running a poker run that would take people through the Bay of Quinte area during there poker run but they would also have to complete an observation run at the same time. That is to say that there will be questions that are given to each participant that can only be answered correctly if they remained on the correct route and solved and followed the secret directions in the process. A test of unique problem solving abilities, keen observation and prudent interpretations. It won't be a J-Beef event. It wil be an MX3 event. To me names are irrelevent. It's the activities and the participation is what makes any event a success, not the name. That may be food for thought for you.

I believe Hutches has issues with car clubs using their lots. You may need to check with the ones local to that area on that information.

Of course one would have to do the appropriate contact with the owners of that establishment. That's normal protocall for any event planning. Just as you have already contacted the Mississauga Parks and Recreation Dept for the use of the Promenade..... right???? This has been done months ago, right?? How did you come upon Hutch's having issues with car clubs using there facilities? My encounters with their establismnent has always been positive and have never heard or seen any posts to contradict that. Do you have more insight into that disposition? If you believe it to be true that "Hutch's has issues with car clubs", why then has the cruise starting point been allocated to Hutch's in the first place? If you believe that to be true, have you then sought their blessing for the staging of the cruise? Mike, I think we need clear answers to those Q's for piece of mind for all concerned that may be want to participate in the cruise....right?
I plan to make contact with a few establishments for a possible fall event in the Quinte area.

[Nd4SpdSe]

Mike who cares if the name gets changed? I mean really?? It would be folly to believe that people attend the event because of the name. It may appear that way on the surface but would it not be more feasable that they would link that name to the large annual get together and that is what the motivator is. Not the name but because it's the largest annual MX3 meet - that's what they look forward too. Names are only that - just names. I mean did you rush to your first one because it was surrounded by the name Mississauga or because it was the largest gathering for MX3's? I'm glad to see that you've recognized that the MMM is not keeping up with meeting the needs of it's attendees and that there are those who have shown dissatisfaction with it's location. I saw this too, hence my winter recommendations. We all know now what happened to those suggestions, right? "Trying to keep the event what it is" Exactly what is that? I believe I just explained that above - it's the largest annual MX3 get together....right???? Well then, lets try to keep it that way. I'm on your side pon this, you just can't see it. I want to keep it the largest event too. Unfortunately, if in order to maintain that we need to move it or call it a different name, than who cares. As long as the members and attendees get the biggest bang for the buck so to speak. I'm pretty darn sure they won't give a rats a-- what the name is as long as it's a big MX3 blow-out. And it's that what your main aim is all along, and not trying to perpetuate a name but an event? An event that can be touted as the biggest annual event. If like you say the ideas I proposed in the winter were good, why were they dismissed? Sorry, I forgot - it would mean that the event would not be at the Promenade and I believe we've covered that area. "try to keep the event what it is, but give attendee's what they wanted" - has it occured to you that perhaps that those two aims may be in conflict with each other are are incompatable with each other? In other words, unable to successfully blend the 2 together. I believe that you have already proven that by having to stage the beginning of the cruise more than 30km's away.

MMM has been left basically unchanged for the prior 8 years. I don't see a reason to completely overhaul and drasticly change it. Is MMM really that bad where it needs a overhaul? What strikes me as odd is that I believe almost everyone was opposed to it. But John, you've been to how many MMM's. Just the last one if i recall correctly. If that is indeed true, than I don't see how you can compare and see what MMM really needs, especially such a drastic change. And what would happen if say the overhauled "MMM" failed? Why hot just address the concerns first before considering MMM prematurely as a write-off. I'm definitely not one of the first people I would choose to organise an event, but I have heard the comments that were given to the previous organizers and do what was within my capabilites, but even then, organizing this has been a logistical nightmare.

Mike I've also driven that route more times than I can remember since I grew up in Burlington and Stoney Creek. I know full well the congestion situation on Saturdays and the various routes one can take to get between them. I'm not sure why you would want to water down the point about having to drive 30km's to enjoy another segment of the event. It's structurally unsound to have to make attendees travel at least 30km's or busy traffic to participate in one of the events activities. You must admit that ther are will be a fair number of attendees that do not live or enjoy the prospect of congested city driving. It's not a pleasurable experience even for those that live in the city either. That said, there is no way one can minimize the fact that an attendee has to drive that distance just to enjoy one of the events activities........ it's just not good planning or thought out very well I think..

Well that was an idea I suggested and I thought it was a good idea. The route was an idea between JWMX3 and myself. You know, Krish pointed out and asked a while back why I don't organize meets and events, because I'm not good at it and I'm affraid of stuff like this happening. But even then, your shotting down my ideas like I have your, but they haven't even been executed yet . I guess we'll see what happens in a few weeks if it was a bad idea or not.

Food??? There is no food availability at the Promenade. People cannot just make a 5 minute or less walk to any food outlets. One has to get in their car and drive there. Same goes for any beverages too. I would call that inconveniant and it's something that should be made mention to those travelling to the event or may be first time attendees.

That was the reason why the BBQ idea was started. There should be drinks available as well. What we did 2 years ago is that we sold the food, and all profit went to a donation to Mx-3.com. Win win situation is you ask me.

If you want to look at it in it's most negative way and call "killing it", then by all means. I'd rather always try to put a positive spin to it. Thje longer you keep holding on to this name, title tradition thing or whatever way you want to sugar coat it, the fact remains and you said it yourself is that it needs changes. We both agree on that. Will those changes entail moving it to a different location? - more than likely. Will it mean a name change too? - more than likely. Will this kill the MMM? - in your mind, more than likely, but that's a chosen decision on your part. Is this a bad thing? - not in my mind because you've taken the signs and signals presented and made the most prudent move possible to you to continue to provide an annnual MX3 event that is the largest gathering of MX'rs for the year. How bad can that be? No one will care if the name changes or the locale is moved - as long as it's fresh, entertaining and meets their needs. If you are clung to the perception that it will be killed off, then that's your perogative. I prefer to look forward to an annual MX3 blow-out and don't really care what it's name or title is. Is it so bad that the name would be changed to something else?

Well that's how I feel, but I'm not the only one. I'll put it this way, if the meet fails, my 2cents and my hands will have no part in it next year. If MMM as we know it is killed off next year, I will voice that I oppose to it, nor will I help in any part of it, but I will still participate in the event.

Of course one would have to do the appropriate contact with the owners of that establishment. That's normal protocall for any event planning. Just as you have already contacted the Mississauga Parks and Recreation Dept for the use of the Promenade..... right???? This has been done months ago, right?? How did you come upon Hutch's having issues with car clubs using there facilities? My encounters with their establismnent has always been positive and have never heard or seen any posts to contradict that. Do you have more insight into that disposition? If you believe it to be true that "Hutch's has issues with car clubs", why then has the cruise starting point been allocated to Hutch's in the first place? If you believe that to be true, have you then sought their blessing for the staging of the cruise? Mike, I think we need clear answers to those Q's for piece of mind for all concerned that may be want to participate in the cruise....right?
I plan to make contact with a few establishments for a possible fall event in the Quinte area.

No they haven't, it didn't cross my mind cause I don't know these things, but I see no reason to do so. As with Hutches, especially since it's only a rally point which will be used only for a few minutes. I don't remember who it was, but it was told that there was an incident last year. I don't know or remember the whole story, it may be wrong for all I know.

[ProspectMx3]

Wow this is so indepth...........way to much reading for me

[Gabor]