KL-ZE... Which one?

93MX3SpecialEdition · March 27th, 2006, 5:19 am

I am currently picking up a KL-ZE engine. I am able to get both the curved neck version or the straight neck version. From what I understand, the curved neck version comes with different cams and I would need to make it work with a MAF instead of a VAF.

Should I get the straight neck version and find a Millenia intake manifold for it? Then it will work with the KL-36/KL-31 ECU and a matching VAF. Also the KL-31 cams will give me a slightly different torque curve?

By the way the car is a 5 spd.

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » March 27th, 2006, 6:10 am

the problem with the curve neck ZE si that your VRIS will be off, you dont have to make it work with a maf it will work with your VAF aslong as you have the kl31/36 ecu. Yes the straight neck uses a different cam which gives you more torque on the lower end. the best solution is to get the straight neck and modify it to fit. then when you get your kl31/36 ecu you have the correct setup already installed and you should have no problems

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » March 27th, 2006, 1:19 pm

Mnemonic wrote:the problem with the curve neck ZE si that your VRIS will be off, you dont have to make it work with a maf it will work with your VAF aslong as you have the kl31/36 ecu. Yes the straight neck uses a different cam which gives you more torque on the lower end. the best solution is to get the straight neck and modify it to fit. then when you get your kl31/36 ecu you have the correct setup already installed and you should have no problems

I'm of a different perspective. First I thought that the VRIS points are at the same gates between the MS8 and the Eunos800. If in fact there is a progamming difference between these than why don't we see the Eunos800 ECU's around. My understanding is that the KL31 and KL36 ECU's are both from the MTX/ATX MS8's respectively. Were these not used in the Eunos800? Absolutely correct with the application of VAF (MS8) and MAF (Eunos800). It's the joining of the correct VAF/MAF to the applicable ECU. In this case either KL31 or KL36 with a JE50 VAF. Not aware of the correct MAF # for the Eunos800 or in fact, the correct ECU #'s for the Eunos800??? The suggestion to utilize the "straight neck" and modify to fit can't be easily advised. There are those that have a few tricks to get around the obsructive brake MC but those peeps do not want to share that info. At least I haven't seen it posted as of yet. It wouldn't be prudent to recommend the straight neck (commonly referred to as the LONG NECK) with out providing the necessary guidance and instructions to overcome the clearance issues. My recommendation would be to go completely with the Eunos800 ZE engine. Maybe because it's comming out of a non sporty type car and possible would not have been pushed as hard as an MS8 may have been. It will have the curved neck IM which removes any clearance issues mentioned above. Although it will use the KL01 cams versus the KL31 cams, the power considerations would be negligable since both engines are rated at the same output, just at different rpms. There's also the $$ value to consider. Why acquire an MS8 engine just so you can put a Eunos800 IM on it. More cost to accomplish what? If I were to take it one step further, funds provided, I would inquire as to the overall cost of a ZE with a tranny. The MS8 tranny will have a slightly taller final drive so that you won't be at warp rpm levels while on the highway when using the MX3 tranny. Yes I know I just recommended the Eunos800 engine, but if you get a quote for XX amount of $$ for a complete engine, then they shouldn't quabble about you getting an Eunos800 engine and a MS8 tranny. Who knows, maybe the tranny might turn out to be an LSD also - big bonus. That's my take on it all.

babyblueMX3 · Post by **babyblueMX3** » March 27th, 2006, 1:58 pm

jschrauwen wrote:Not aware of the correct MAF # for the Eunos800 or in fact, the correct ECU #'s for the Eunos800??? .[/color]

MAF KL47 and ECU KL62

MAZDASPEEDMX-3 · Post by **MAZDASPEEDMX-3** » March 27th, 2006, 10:21 pm

ok so im confussed bc i have the ze with ms8 im and kl36 ecu and everything works great. also im pretty sure that the vris points are correct but i dunno i guess i was wrong lol

babyblueMX3 · Post by **babyblueMX3** » March 27th, 2006, 10:50 pm

MAZDASPEEDMX-3 wrote:ok so im confussed bc i have the ze with ms8 im and kl36 ecu and everything works great. also im pretty sure that the vris points are correct but i dunno i guess i was wrong lol

the ms8 intake is a straight neck intake and is made to be used with a kl31 or kl36 ecu. Your vris points should all be correct.
http://www.mx-3quebec.com/swap6.htm

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » March 28th, 2006, 12:30 am

jschrauwen wrote:
Mnemonic wrote:here are those that have a few tricks to get around the obsructive brake MC but those peeps do not want to share that info. At least I haven't seen it posted as of yet. It wouldn't be prudent to recommend the straight neck (commonly referred to as the LONG NECK) with out providing the necessary guidance and instructions to overcome the clearance issues. [/color]

you have the answer lying there right infront of you if you examine both motors.

MAZDASPEEDMX-3 · Post by **MAZDASPEEDMX-3** » March 28th, 2006, 10:26 pm

babyblueMX3 wrote:
MAZDASPEEDMX-3 wrote:ok so im confussed bc i have the ze with ms8 im and kl36 ecu and everything works great. also im pretty sure that the vris points are correct but i dunno i guess i was wrong lol
the ms8 intake is a straight neck intake and is made to be used with a kl31 or kl36 ecu. Your vris points should all be correct.
http://www.mx-3quebec.com/swap6.htm

mmm i was always under the impression/and told that the ms8 was the curved im and thats what i supposedly got? hmm

babyblueMX3 · Post by **babyblueMX3** » March 29th, 2006, 10:34 am

nope you need the eunos 800 intake

MAZDASPEEDMX-3 · Post by **MAZDASPEEDMX-3** » March 29th, 2006, 7:27 pm

babyblueMX3 wrote:nope you need the eunos 800 intake

oh ok and do you think it would make any diff on my power output?

babyblueMX3 · Post by **babyblueMX3** » March 29th, 2006, 8:18 pm

over the k8 or ms8 ? yes on the k8, no on the ms8

hppwdn · Post by **hppwdn** » March 29th, 2006, 9:47 pm

From recent Dyno Tests we've done here are the results. All cars have all the bolt ons and are running Megasquirt.

Engine A) Straight Neck ZE engine with Curved Neck Millenia IM
Engine B) Curved Neck ZE Engine w/ KL31 Cams, Straight Neck IM
Engine C) KLDE w/ Curved Neck IM
Engine D) Straight Neck ZE engine with Straight Neck IM

Engine A did very well with the powerband shifted slightly to the left. It peaks around 6500

Engine B put out disappointingly low power numbers even while measuring 200+ compression across the board.

Engine C also peaked around 6500

Engine D kept making power all the way to redline and beyond.

What we concluded from doing all these dynos were two things:

1) The JSpec Millenia (Curve Neck) engine does not make 200hp
2) The Curve Neck IM and Straight Neck IMs are not superior to each other in terms of peak power, but the straight neck does seem better if you plan on modding it to push the RPMs past redline.

MX3 GSR for dummies · March 30th, 2006, 2:21 am

Alright, I have to speak up as John said people don't like to talk. First of all, I have mod'd the straight neck ZE and it fits! O.k maybe with 3 days of work but I figured it out. And I must say thanks to John for correcting my throttle!
Now I am impressed someone finally knows the facts about the straight neck. At the last meet I was at, someone tried to convince me that the curve neck performed better! I stayed quiet though cause Everyone is entitled to their opinion. In fact I am wrong too sometimes. But in any case.
First there are a couple issues to resolve. Take off intake, TB, Throttle cable and Vac system and IM, and battery. Normally installed, the TB will hit the master cylinder and your intake will hit the battery and your throttle cable will hit your firewall! You must, and don't be scared, you must shave down the right lower front side of your "K8"TB with a grinder about 1/4" deep running from the edge in about 1". Then you must hook and connect all your selenoids and put them in place without the IM installed. then ground your ground under the hood and attach the possitive to 4awg wire running through the fire wall and under floor matts and along the drivers side and up through the side of the rear seat until it comes into the hatch area. Install a ground on the back wall of hatch where all your rear lights pass through from your lights to the connector. Do not connect battery at this time! Then you have to put your TB back on the IM. Then lower and sit (floating on top but not in place) the IM on top of the headers and connect all hosings. Then carefully without dissconnecting anything, lower the IM in to final possition and squeeze in place and tighten down. If you can see the TB rubbing the bolt head on your master cylinder inlet, take out and grind more! After the IM is in place, you have to put your throttle cable in so you must flip around the original K8 bracket so it holds the throttle cable above the backing of IM and lines up straight with TB. Then, once this is done, you have to create a new intake so grab a 91 integra aftermarket intake and cut in half so that a 90 degree bend comes off the TB and heads straight for the front of the car and then put your Vaf at the end of the straight section and then intall the other 90 degree part of integra intake and point downwards towards ground and put air intake at end. You will need a ractive sleeve and hose intake kit to connect al the pieces together. Once this is achieved, you just have to install the battery and turn over but don't rev the car throttle. Just idle it for 10 minutes until full running temp is aquired. then turn car off and then restart and let idle for a couple minutes and then turn off and on again. This will help your ecu program. You may need to adjust the TB screw and if so, just re-set the ECU again.

If you need pics of intall for both IM intall and CAI, pm me with your e-mail and I can do so.

Remember through this that this is not as easy as it sounds and be prepared to have to take trips for little parts at the store with another vehicle as yours will be off the road for at least a couple. Have patience as you will run into little issues. Especially when hooking the vac system back up, and then dropping the IM fully into place, as the hoses are easily tugged on and will dissconnect on yah. This I can almost guarentee. I think I had to put on and take off the IM at least 15 times but I was experimenting. It has been done and will fit!

mab · Post by **mab** » May 7th, 2006, 9:05 pm

i put my original intake back my klze are you saying that im loosing whp?

mab · Post by **mab** » May 7th, 2006, 9:17 pm

mx3 wont start. i had it sitting for 2 years. then i started it up and ran it for about 4 hours i came home and pulled a spark plug, held it to the manifold then the car died. i checked all the fuses. its getting fuel but i dont know how much and theres spark but its questionable. what should i do next? CAN ANyONE HELP?