KLZE Brief Cut Out During Warm Up

millaj01 · Post by **millaj01** » August 7th, 2005, 11:14 am

Hey All,

Since I've had the KLZE swap done I've been addressing niggling little issues here and there, and have one more to diagnose. It's kind of odd, but basically within about 5-10 minutes of the engine running the engine will very briefly (about half a second) cut out almost completely.....RPMs go down to almost zero.....then continues running again as if nothing happened. This is kind of frightening while under throttle (highly pronounced jerk), but not very noticeable at idle. Originally thought this might be distributor related until I associated it with the time during when the engine is starting to come up to operating temperature. Could it be that the ECU is making adjustments to the operating temp of the engine, and this is symptomatic of some sensor or part of the electricals failing? Or simply something not set up correctly when the swap was done?

I will say that some portion of the sensor components weren't moved overly properly when the swap was done as the radiator fans run constantly soon after the car is started.

Thanks for any help....

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » August 7th, 2005, 11:29 am

Radiator fan(s)??? Both are running on engine start up Jay? Even when it's cold? Perhaps that cut-out is related to that - just a guess. Got to get the engine thermosensors (2) and engine temp sensor sorted first and move on from there. Drivers side fan is related to those sensors and the passenger fan should be related to A/C. Another reason that the drivers fan may be on at start-up could be an improper setting of the TPS. Set too far the wrong way (clockwise) and it will engage that fan. Perhaps cut-out may be related to TPS or even if A/C is engaged or thinks the A/C is engaged.

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » August 7th, 2005, 1:28 pm

Yea the fans being on is related to the missing sensor, mine did the same until I swapped the second sensor over. You should fix this as soon as possible. It's kinda weird how both fans come on, I think it's a safety feature if the sensor ever fails.

As far as the cut-out. Does this happen during the warm up when revving it up like over 3.5k? mine will cut out if I get on it' when the motors cold, it will pop and buck just like the k8 did.... I'm starting to think it's just a characteristic of the k-series.

millaj01 · Post by **millaj01** » August 7th, 2005, 5:21 pm

Well, the fans only come on after about 4-5 minutes after the engine was cold started....it's not immediate. Hadn't taken a close enough look at the wiring harness plugs near the coolant filler cap. Looks like there are a total of four connectors....and yes, one of them is simply sitting there unplugged. It's a medium size connector, basically a two-pin female. So I take it this is the extra temp sensor on the K8 harness that doesn't have an equivalent on the KLZE? I found the thread from the March timeframe where you guys originally discussed this. So, from the sounds of it I need to take that second sensor from my original K8 (which I won't likely be able to do since I didn't do the swap myself), plug that into the 2nd harness receptacle, and then manually drill a hole in the coolant filler neck to place the sensor into? I take it that's what you did Rick? If I can't find this sensor from my old K8, is there some official name for it I should use to order it from the dealer or parts store? Hope it's not expensive. In any event, is it at all harmful to the engine to run this way for the time being, or should I get this corrected before I drive it much more?

Back to the cut-out issue, this is nothing like I ever experienced on the K8. It definitely happens during warm up, but not only when revving it. I could be at idle, or I could be on the gas. Looked to be related to what stage of 'warm up' the car had reached.....say, it just reached operating temperature. Also, the cut-out never happens again if the car is warm, at least from what I've noticed.

lakersfan1 · Post by **lakersfan1** » August 7th, 2005, 6:22 pm

millaj01 wrote:Well, the fans only come on after about 4-5 minutes after the engine was cold started....it's not immediate. Hadn't taken a close enough look at the wiring harness plugs near the coolant filler cap. Looks like there are a total of four connectors....and yes, one of them is simply sitting there unplugged. It's a medium size connector, basically a two-pin female. So I take it this is the extra temp sensor on the K8 harness that doesn't have an equivalent on the KLZE? I found the thread from the March timeframe where you guys originally discussed this. So, from the sounds of it I need to take that second sensor from my original K8 (which I won't likely be able to do since I didn't do the swap myself), plug that into the 2nd harness receptacle, and then manually drill a hole in the coolant filler neck to place the sensor into? I take it that's what you did Rick? If I can't find this sensor from my old K8, is there some official name for it I should use to order it from the dealer or parts store? Hope it's not expensive. In any event, is it at all harmful to the engine to run this way for the time being, or should I get this corrected before I drive it much more?

Back to the cut-out issue, this is nothing like I ever experienced on the K8. It definitely happens during warm up, but not only when revving it. I could be at idle, or I could be on the gas. Looked to be related to what stage of 'warm up' the car had reached.....say, it just reached operating temperature. Also, the cut-out never happens again if the car is warm, at least from what I've noticed.

The sensor you're looking for should have a green connector on it. Two out of three sensors on the K8 coolant neck should be green, and they're both exactly identical. Why Mazda used two of the same sensor basically in the same place is beyond me.

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » August 7th, 2005, 7:36 pm

I thought I had the same set-up. Looking straight on at the coolant filler neck from the front of the car should be a black 2 wire thermosensor then the filler cap then a similar 2 wire connector although this one is green and so is the thermosensor, then behind that is the single wire temp sensor for your dash temp gauge. What you're probably missing Jay if you did not import your K8 filler neck housing (which is a direct fit), is the first black 2 wire thermosensor ahead of the filler neck. There's a flattened machined surface there (or should be) where you would have to drill and tap for that thermosensor. The green one must be to the rear of the filler neck (I believe). Price for thermosensor from Mazda - $50.00 cdn. Hope this helps.

millaj01 · Post by **millaj01** » August 7th, 2005, 8:53 pm

jschrauwen wrote:I What you're probably missing Jay if you did not import your K8 filler neck housing (which is a direct fit), is the first black 2 wire thermosensor ahead of the filler neck. There's a flattened machined surface there (or should be) where you would have to drill and tap for that thermosensor. The green one must be to the rear of the filler neck (I believe). Price for thermosensor from Mazda - $50.00 cdn. Hope this helps.

Yes, exactly as you've described. Well, d*mn, had I known originally I needed to transplant the filler neck that would have been easy enough to tell the garage to do. Heck, they might have my old engine still lying around with the right neck....but I'd imagine replacing the neck with the engine in the car would be a pain. I'll call them anyways. Oh well, if I pursue the other route.... I see the machined surface you describe, and yes, the connector that's plugged into the rear of the neck is green. The unplugged connector is black.

So I'm a bit confused on how to go about creating the tap for the new thermosensor....obviously I'll have to get a drill bit capable of punching through metal. Anyone have ideas as to size hole to drill? Then what? How does one create the 'tap' or receptacle for the sensor to mate to on the filler neck? Is that some generic part, does it come with the sensor itself, what? Obviously you'd need something with a snug/sound fit on the filler neck to then plug the sensor into.

Sorry to be so green re: engine work if some of this stuff is obvious. Never done any. I really appreciate your guys' helping me with this stuff.

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » August 7th, 2005, 10:16 pm

That specific issue I believe was just covered about a month or so ago. Not sure if it was DavidOs ... just guessing. If you have the room Jay and you can get the old K8, then just tuck it away for now. You'll be amazed what you can scavage over time. In short, you're right, too much to tear apart to put old filler neck on at this point. Drain coolant level down and clean out that small cavity the you'll be drilling into. Someone had mentioned in the other thread about stuffing a rag into that cavity to catch any filings. Using the correct drill for the tap of the required threads is pretty straight forward. Don't recall off-hand the correct drill and tap sizes and again, I think it's mentioned in the other thread. You can always measure the thread and pitch from the new thermosensor you're going to install. AAMOF, when you get the old filler neck, just take the black sensor out. You'll have to be carefull as they tend to break easy when using a socket to remove because of the brittleness they get to in time. Hope this helps a little Jay??

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » August 8th, 2005, 12:02 am

I just posted all this info in another thread but here it is again.

Theres a good thick casting spot on the coolant neck, you will know it when you see it - drill there. You will need:

m12 X 1.5 tap and 13/32nd normal HSS drill bit.

Make sure to use a couple smaller bits before the big one, and drill straight and tap it straight, or you will be in a world of pain.

You can do this without even draining the coolant because it is the highest point in the system, I stuck a shop vac into the hole right underneath where I was drilling and had at 'er. I'm 100% sure I didn't get any filings in my sytem.

If your pulling your sensor from your old motor, BE VERY CAREFUL not to break the plastic off, because it is old and brittle it breaks very easily. Don't ask me how I know that. Also make sure to grab the aluminum crush washer as well, you can re-use it. Or if you like to spend money go buy a new one. Cheers.

Grants · Post by **Grants** » August 8th, 2005, 12:36 am

and brittle it breaks very easily

How do you know that?

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » August 8th, 2005, 5:51 am

Grants wrote:
and brittle it breaks very easily
How do you know that?

Perhaps he heard it from me

in a previous thread cause I snapped my green one (separated plastic from copper base) when removing to clean the copper surface as part of a self elimination process to sort out a problem. Green one seems to get more brittle than the black one over time from the hot/cold temps.

millaj01 · Post by **millaj01** » August 8th, 2005, 8:14 am

Rick Johnson wrote:I just posted all this info in another thread but here it is again..

Sorry to have you guys rehash the same topic....didn't think it would have been covered in detail already.....but I've been a member of this board long enough to know better.

Thanks again for reposting.

In any event, I'll gather the proper pieces via whatever means I can and let you know how it goes.

millaj01 · Post by **millaj01** » August 15th, 2005, 3:41 pm

Okay, as I expected my old engine was done away with by the garage that did my swap (I had no real way to bring it back to my condo, nor any place to keep it unfortunately) so I had to order a new sensor from the dealer. Should be picking it up tonight.

I also went ahead and bought all the tools required for this little procedure. I'm going to give it a go tomorrow (and will try and write up a how-to guide if I can), but have one last question. Should I be using a sealant of any kind on the threads of the sensor itself to ensure a tight, leakproof fit? Thanks for any info.

jschrauwen · Post by **jschrauwen** » August 15th, 2005, 4:23 pm

millaj01 wrote:Should I be using a sealant of any kind on the threads of the sensor itself to ensure a tight, leakproof fit? Thanks for any info.

Rick Johnson wrote: Also make sure to grab the aluminum crush washer as well, you can re-use it. Or if you like to spend money go buy a new one. Cheers.

No sealant required, just the the crush washer Jay. As Rick said, drill and tap straight as possible. Should be just fine. Good luck!!

Rick Johnson · Post by **Rick Johnson** » August 15th, 2005, 11:11 pm

jschrauwen wrote:
Grants wrote:
and brittle it breaks very easily
How do you know that?
Perhaps he heard it from me in a previous thread cause I snapped my green one (separated plastic from copper base) when removing to clean the copper surface as part of a self elimination process to sort out a problem. Green one seems to get more brittle than the black one over time from the hot/cold temps.

Well the story is kinda funny I guess, I went to remove the sensor I needed and I couldn't get the wrench on it, So I went to remove the banjo bolt from the rail to give me more room, and when the banjo let loose I lightly bumped the plastic and broke the damn sensor plastic part clean off.

But it gets better, I called the dealership and napa, the sensor was $50 bucks, so I'm like F u guys. I went the the junk yard, and found out after looking at 400 cars that the 89 camry's have the same sensor!!!! Woot Woot, so I snatch it up get home yeyah, getting ready to do my drilling check to see if the sensor clips in, because it is identical to the one I broke.

The sensor didn't fit, I'm like WTF!, then I go look at the K8 motor sitting in my condos back yard <how I got it in there is a whole other story, involving me and a motor hoist on GRASS, tryin to move it into the yard, the neighbor said it kinda looked like a game of leapfrog>

Anyways So I'm looking at my K8 and I realize, I had broke the WRONG sensor and the sensor I need is sitting there in perfect shape.

Moral of the story - look very closely at the fins on the plastic compared to the harness plug