Bubbles in the radiator

Methos · Post by **Methos** » February 16th, 2005, 11:42 am

I have a question for you guys......
I have a 1993 Mazda MX-3 with a 1.6 SOHC and only 123k. The car ran great until last week when the damn fan belt broke when I was on the highway and I didnt notice it. It didn't make a noise at all.
I had been having problems with the battery and alternator the few days before this, and my gages in the dash would act a little freaky. By acting freaky, I mean the gages would show the wrong reading. The night before the belt broke, I thought the car was overheating because the temp. gage was slowly climbing towards the red. I pulled over and shut down the car. The car was fine, no overheating. I drove the car home and talked to my neighbor (who is a mechanic) and he told me that due to the charging system in my car acting up, the gages where not getting the right amount of juice and they would act up. For instance, running out of juice, the temp. gage would read hot. So, when I made a run to the mall the next day, and the gage reads that the car is running hot, I figured it was the battery issue and since I never heard the belt break or come off, the car overheated and stalled. I got the car home and now I have bubbles coming up through the radiator when I crank it over. We did a compression test and noticed the 2 inside cylinders where at about 70 psi, the 2 outside cylinders where at 90 I think. I went out and bought a headgasket kit and put that in. The car still won't start, and I still get those damn bubbles in the radiator overflow container.
This is what it sounds like when you try to start it. You crank it over for a few seconds and then you stop and you hear Glug, glug glug and see bubbles coming up in the radiator overflow tank. Does this mean I frigged up my block or is there something else it could be? The car is in great shape, so I dont want to send it to the junk yard if there is a possibility that the block is not bad, and it is some thing else.......

Joey's mx · Post by **Joey's mx** » February 16th, 2005, 11:57 am

Did you cange the water pump?? I dont know for sure but it might have something to do with the water pump!!

Methos · Post by **Methos** » February 16th, 2005, 11:59 am

no we didnt change the water pump, just the head gasket and on up through the motor (exhaust, all the intake gaskets, etc.)

Joey's mx · Post by **Joey's mx** » February 16th, 2005, 12:14 pm

sounds to me that the coolant isnt making its way through the engine right...i would say try changing the water pump..but that is costly if that isnt the problem...hope someone else can help out!!

Methos · Post by **Methos** » February 16th, 2005, 12:39 pm

yeah, a water pump is costly...
I was worried that the block might have an internal crack. I know that the car had the bubbles coming up the overflow tank both before I changed the head gasket and after. but it didnt do it before the car stalled....

Methos · Post by **Methos** » February 16th, 2005, 1:05 pm

The car is getting gas, the spark is bright and clean, but no starting...it cranks over a little slower than it used to, but still fast enough to start it if it would start...
it still has those damn bubbles coming up through the overflow tank after you stop cranking it over.....
I dont get it, when it over heated and stalled there was very little smoke coming off the motor, my cigarette put off more smoke.....
I have read on the forum other people that have overheated their cars and have had huge amounts of smoke, only difference between them and me is....Their cars start, mine does not .....

and those damn bubbles...

Damn those bubbles.....

glug glug glug

guyaverage · Post by **guyaverage** » February 16th, 2005, 1:41 pm

Did you check the head and block for warpage when you did the head gasket? I would venture a guess and say if not then there is the culprit. If you did check and there was no warp, then there is either a crack in the head, or a crack in the block. One way or another, you have cylinder pressure going into the cooling system and that is never good.

And not to state what hopefully is obvious (or maybe its not), but you DIDNT use any type of sealant on the head gasket, right?

If you did, there is another head gasket job in your future.

Did you check compression and timing after the new head gasket? You also may have put the timing belt back on off a couple of notches. That would definitely cause the no start, but those bubbles..... those little bubbles are absolutely a problem.

Methos · Post by **Methos** » February 16th, 2005, 6:20 pm

we looked at them, and they looked fine, they were straight, so I am leaning towards probably a cracked block or a cracked head, like you said.

Is there any cheap way to find out which one has the crack?
I was told about this stuff that has a moneyback guarantee that will supposedly fix the crack...... what do you think? is it worth the sixty bucks to try this stuff? or should I just say a few words and send it to the junkyard??

The car is clean and the 5 speed tranny runs perfect.... interior is great too...

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » February 16th, 2005, 6:27 pm

Heck if its in that good of shape dont send it to the junk yard.. post it for sale or something here. Too bad you have the SOHC engine though.. I have a spare DOHC head thats in good flat condition. You should even be able to find a crate motor for the car for under $500 easy worst case scenario. Where are you located? If its the block thats cracked.. well thats a game over scenario for that engine.. if its the head.. you should be able to get a remanufactured head for it relatively cheap. There are lots of possible answers here no matter what the eventual diagnosis is.. but dont let a clean ride end up in the junk yard

Tunes67

Methos · Post by **Methos** » February 16th, 2005, 6:37 pm

yeah man, I dont want to send it to the junkyard....
The car has about 123,000 miles on it

How do I tell if it is the head that has the crack or the block?
If it is the head, I would fix it in a heart beat, but the block...
Not sure what I would do if it was the block

if I could talk the wife into letting me spend some more money on the car then I wouldn't mind getting an engine..... she is kinda pissed that I spend $144. USD for the Head Gasket kit from Felpro ( the HD set they make) and my buddy cracked the intake when we took it off, so I had to get one of those for $30 USD at a junk yard
She was kinda pissed when the thing didnt run after almost $200 bucks...

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » February 16th, 2005, 6:53 pm

Have you tried doing the compression test since replacing the Head Gasket? Honestly.. I would suspect the head before I would suspect the block. The head is made of aluminum and is easily damaged by overheating. The block is cast iron and more sturdy.. you would have to have gotten it extremely hot to crack the block (can be done though) in either case if the temp got up there.. likely it warped your head.. depending on how bad it warped it.. this can be "Trued" back to a flat condition so that the gasket will seal properly. Also.. if you find that you did indeed warp your head.. you should replace your head bolts before you put the head back on. In my opinion.. in your shoes.. I would redo the compression test and see if you have any different results since doing the head gasket. If the results are similar, I would remove the head and take it to a machine shop and ask them to check it for warpage. You can check it yourself if you have a long (machined flat) metal bar. Place the bar diagonally across the bottom of the head (the side that goes down to the block) see if you can see any gaps between the head surface and the bar. Check diagonally both ways (from left top to bottom right and from right top to bottom left). Honestly.. if its warped enough to allow cylinder pressure into the cooling system.. the head is not likely going to be repairable. But the first step is to get a accurate diagnosis. If the head isnt warped.. take it to a machine shop or automotive shop and have it pressure tested.. this will reveal any cracks. (You might be able to visually see any cracks under a lighted magnifying glass as well) I doubt that the block cracked.. you would have had to run it out of water completely to have achieved this. Do you have any signs of Coolant or water in your oil? Or any oil in your radiator? (This usually shows up as a brownish color or even gray). Keep us posted.

Tunes67

Methos · Post by **Methos** » February 16th, 2005, 7:17 pm

Thanks Tunes67...
I will run the compression test again and see what I get for results. What should a good 1.6 SOHC give for compression? The car didnt run out of coolant, and we didnt notice anything in the coolant when we took off the head. I havent checked the oil yet though.... which I will do.
The compression test should be easy to accomplish since my next door neighbor used to be a mechanic and he has all the tools needed.
Thanks again, Tunes67

guyaverage · Post by **guyaverage** » February 16th, 2005, 8:23 pm

DONT send this puppy to the junkyard. At the very LEAST, post it for sale here. A cheap sohc 1.6 should not be difficult to find. Even a BP would be a relatively inexpensive replacement (although if she complained about $200, she isnt going to be happy about ANY of this.) But I feel your pain. I spent $12 for a thermostat for my boat, and you can almost guess what I am going to say....yes, she complained. $12 ! Wives just dont get it sometimes......

Methos · Post by **Methos** » February 16th, 2005, 8:38 pm

I didnt put any sealant on the head gasket, I just cleaned both surfaces and then put on the gasket and torqued it down
I will post it here if I am going to get rid of it, that way you guys can have some parts, if I decide to do that. I want to exhaust all my options first though.....
Thanks guyaverage

Yeah, wives are not happy unless they have something to complain about....

Tunes67 · Post by **Tunes67** » February 17th, 2005, 2:28 am

Heh.. being single isnt all shits and giggles either.. but sometimes I think it is the lesser of two evils

If you are in the seattle washington area.. I may be able to help you out with some of the parts.. there are also other members in the washington area that may be able to help as well as others from all over north america. And if wifey complains about the cost of repairing your ride.. tell her that she is right.. you shouldnt fix it.. you have been wanting that Porsche Carrera Turbo for a long time now

Tunes67