Strut bars and sway bars.

Spotted · Post by **Spotted** » October 25th, 2003, 1:59 am

I know this may seem like a really dumb question, but what is the diference between a front strut bar and a rear strut bar?
Is it obvious?
Are the front strut bars for the front of the car and the rear for the rear of the car?
I wasn't awanre that there were strut bars availabel for the rear. It would have to cut across the cargo compartment right? Or does it go under the car.

Also, can anyone tell me what would be the best sway bars to use on the front and rear of my car?
It's a 94 MX-3 with 1.6 4 cyl.
I don't know if the weight of the motor makes any difference here.

Thanks for putting up with a newb.

Spydie · Post by **Spydie** » October 25th, 2003, 6:17 am

everyone be nice.
I should ask you if you know what strut tower bars actually do?
I don't really know how to answer this question without sounding belittling....but here goes.
front bar goes in front....rear bar goes in rear.
front bar has 2 bends in it to clear the intake manifold, rear is straight and goes in the trunk. You have to cut maybe 1 square inch of plastic on either side to feed the bar through.. 4 cyl or 6cyl doesn't matter, weight of your car doesn't matter.
there really isn't a big difference in brands. It's just an aluminum bar. You can see pics of it in my car linked below. Front with hood open close to the windshield, and rear with trunk open going over my subs.

<small>[ October 25, 2003, 05:22 AM: Message edited by: Darren Hyderman ]</small>

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » October 25th, 2003, 1:34 pm

strut tower bar ties the strut towers together at their mounting points. Helps increase rigidity of the car and helps the car corner flatter. Doesn't necessarily "increase handling" like most may think, but it definitely can spark increased driver confidence in the capabilties of the car.

Swaybars are basically solid, sometiimes hollow metal rods that fit underneath the car. They attach to endlinks which on our car are located on the control arms on the front, and lateral links on the rear. These DO incrase handling, and can be the determining factor in whether or not your car understeers or oversteers. A thicker front bar will increase understeer, while a thicker rear bar will increase oversteer.

IMO swaybar is the way to go, strutbars basically help with the "feel" of the car.

Spotted · Post by **Spotted** » October 25th, 2003, 1:54 pm

Thank you so much. I really appreciate the answer, I am totally clear on it now.
In your opinion, what are the best sizes of sway bars for the front and the rear?
Again, thanks a lot.

nope-mx3 · Post by **nope-mx3** » October 25th, 2003, 6:10 pm

Originally posted by Spotted:
In your opinion, what are the best sizes of sway bars for the front and the rear?

I have only replaced my rear swaybar as fwd cars has more than enough understeer as it is.
Unless you get a bar custom made, the only other option is Whiteline (do a search in suspension)
and that bar is 22mm I believe. Makes a world of difference.

Regarding the front swaybar, I have no intentions of replacing the original, partly due to not wanting to increase understeer, and partly due to the fact that it`s a pain in the neck job to do. I`m not too sure, but it looks as if you must remove a lot of stuff to be able to swap the front bar.

nope-mx3

Spotted · Post by **Spotted** » October 27th, 2003, 3:03 am

Thanks so much for the info.
One more question, should I also upgrade the lateral links on the rear when I upgrade the swaybar?

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » October 27th, 2003, 3:42 am

you don't want too big a swaybar on the rear. I found this out the hard way. I put a 25mm on my Protege LX, without upgrading the front, and holy ****!! That car oversteered for NO reason all the time!

i actually spun out going 70mph once b/c i was swerving to avoid a deer, and I lost it. The swerve wasn't even that severe, but the *** -end came loose immediately, and i spun out into the grass. Luckily, i only blew out my 4 tires (destroying them) and f'ed up my rear alignment. no body damage, but the alignment required me to replace a few bent lateral links....about $700 total

But all in all, i do'nt think you'd get oversteer situations with a 22mm whiteline bar. It'd be pretty close, but with our heavy V6 motor in the front, getting a mild rear bar would be super beneficial

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » October 27th, 2003, 11:50 am

Originally posted by Gro Harlem:
strut tower bar ties the strut towers together at their mounting points. Helps increase rigidity of the car and helps the car corner flatter.

It will NOT make your car corner flatter. The only things that determine how flat it corners are sheer grip from the tires, and roll resistence, which a stiffened body doesn't change.

A thicker front bar will increase understeer, while a thicker rear bar will increase oversteer.

This is oversimplified. In many cases, a bigger front bar will increase oversteer.

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » October 27th, 2003, 3:51 pm

It will NOT make your car corner flatter. The only things that determine how flat it corners are sheer grip from the tires, and roll resistence, which a stiffened body doesn't change.

ehh, it makes the car "feel" flatter when cornering. Doesn't necessarily mean it DOES corner flatly, i agree. Everyone i know with strutbars think the same, the car just doesn't seem to roll as much, instead, your body is flailed around the car more.

This is oversimplified. In many cases, a bigger front bar will increase oversteer

Yeah, on a RWD car, but we are talking about MX3's

Spotted · Post by **Spotted** » October 27th, 2003, 10:05 pm

OK, Great.
What size of bars would you suggest for the front and back?

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » October 28th, 2003, 4:06 pm

Originally posted by Gro Harlem:

Yeah, on a RWD car, but we are talking about MX3's

No, front wheel drive cars too. Stop assuming crap unless you have a good idea of what you're talking about. Especially since you like to complain about all the idiots on message boards.

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » October 28th, 2003, 4:06 pm

Originally posted by Spotted:
OK, Great.
What size of bars would you suggest for the front and back?

depends on your springs and what you want to do with the car.

Gro Harlem · Post by **Gro Harlem** » October 28th, 2003, 8:19 pm

Originally posted by ProtegeSTS:

Originally posted by Gro Harlem:

Yeah, on a RWD car, but we are talking about MX3's
No, front wheel drive cars too. Stop assuming crap unless you have a good idea of what you're talking about. Especially since you like to complain about all the idiots on message boards.

I do have a good idea what we are talking about. This is MX3.com, and we are talking about MX3's, not any other car....

ProtegeSTS · Post by **ProtegeSTS** » October 28th, 2003, 10:27 pm

Originally posted by Gro Harlem:
[QBI do have a good idea what we are talking about. This is MX3.com, and we are talking about MX3's, not any other car.... [/QB]

And I think that a larger front bar alone will increase OVERSTEER.

It will reduce body roll enough to offset the "effective spring rate" jump and provide a better contact patch, as well as making your tires last longer. Same is true with ANY car.

So again, until you can provide us with some physics/theory behind why it wouldn't work, shush Wil;)

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