red line water wetter

[mrspanky79]

why do you fined it so hard to see a change on the needle. The colling system is designed to work in a given range and when you start moding the engine the range gets streched and easly crosses the line. Now this is very noticable with an aftermarket temp gauge. So if your car is running around that upper line and tends to cross it water wetter is going to lower that temp. It help keep the water temp even throw out aidds in heat tranfer and help with boiling points so if your pushing your cooling system you will see its benifts on the temp gauge, but if you running stock the odds of seeing a differents on the gauge is very unlikely

[TsiMiata]

If your cooling system couldn't keep up then yes you'll see a change in the needle. You shouldn't be running your car that close to the edge though. You should be fixing the real problem and not putting aband aid on it. If water wetter drops your temp gauge then you need a new radiator, water pump etc.. things along those lines.

[IanL]

Originally posted by TsiMiata:
If your cooling system couldn't keep up then yes you'll see a change in the needle. You shouldn't be running your car that close to the edge though. You should be fixing the real problem and not putting aband aid on it. If water wetter drops your temp gauge then you need a new radiator, water pump etc.. things along those lines.

A healthy cooling system is capable of considerably overcooling the engine - the thing that stops that happening is the thermostat, which restricts the water flow to "just enough" to keep the temperature where it should be. Change something about the engine (e.g. improve the property of the coolant to absorb heat) and the thermostat will react by closing the opening a little, "just enough" to restore the situation to that designed temperature.

[guyaverage]

IanL, I agree with you (in principle) 100%.

However, automotive temp gauges are notoriously inaccurate and slow to respond (the latter is very intentional, by the way). A few degrees difference may not show on the average gauge, if the engine really is running cooler.

On the other hand, in any thermostatically controlled cooling system of any kind, the coolant and heat exchanger (radiator) determine CAPACITY (to remove heat), and the thermostat controls the TEMPERATURE (not the coolant). If adding water wetter is lowering your temp gauge, then your thermostat is showing the weakness of its design limitations.

[IanL]

There's an alternative explanation:

First, if water wetter works by absorbing heat better than "plain coolant", it would get hotter during it's passage through the engine, so the reading from the coolant thermosensor would go up, not down, wouldn't it? If you think that's crazy - the engine gets cooler but the dial goes up - that's because you changed the rules by putting the water wetter in.

If you don't buy that, and I'm not expecting many to do that, maybe it doesn't work that way. Say it works by reducing surface tension and therefore reducing the resistance to flow. I think that would tie in with reducing bubbles in the radiator, too, and that ties in with perhapsadingo8yerbaby's link. If it does that, more coolant would be able to get through the thermostat opening and flow round the system. That would increase the heat taken from the engine and slightly lower the coolant temperature at the thermosensor. Yes, that would tend to make the thermostat close a little, but the system would settle at a slightly higher flow, and lower indicated temperature.

Btw, there's a very cheap liquid which does just that - liquid detergent for washing dishes - now maybe that's what water wetter is, without the foaming agent

Anyway, the difference would be tiny. You could get a much more pronounced effect by fitting a cooler thermostat, or, as a bodge, drilling a small hole through the standard one (but this slows the warm-up cycle, so not recommended) But you don't need to do that if your cooling system is in good order, as has been said.

Conclusion - put your money to better use, or if you must get this "benefit", maybe you could put a few drops of photographic wetting agent in the coolant;)

<small>[ June 25, 2004, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: IanL ]</small>

[TsiMiata]

good point on the soap. I know a few people who use a few drops of dish washing detergent.

[mrspanky79]

ok so we live in a perfect world. No, every thing you say is right if the car is always running the same but we tend to push them time to time(dyno, tracks or having fun on the roads)and the engine makes alot of heat when being push, After the heat is made then the thermostat opeans to cool down(and when it opeans it cant opean any bigger then the size of it no matter what kind you have in there or if the car is at 180* or 220*) so right there you have a time delay then the hole system have to cool things down. adding more time delay. So if i can fined somthing that helps me keep the temp just that much lower between those time delays im going to use it. Add When running a tubro you realy see these high temp piont fast and alot fast then the cooling system can keep up. And i can say that i have seen a differents in temp after adding water wetter. People have to realise that these things are made to help those high piont in use not when driving down the road or ideling. The way you guys are looking at this stuff is the same as me say that there is no diffents in 80 octane gas compared to 98 octane, In my lawn mower is 98 going to make my blades spin faster then with 80, no so em i good to say that 98 is no good and dosnt do anything. You have to look at what it is made for.

[IanL]

I have no problem with that - a heavily modified car which presents an overload to the (now) undersized cooling system will benefit. I think I more or less said that in post #2 in this thread

Perhaps we get a bit too keen to argue our cases sometimes, without reading the "small print".

Peace.

[papa roached]

water wetter is also used in water cooling setups on PCs, the guys who use it notice a few degrees C drop in their setup, the only thing missing to make it a mini copy of a car is a thermostat, got a water block on the processor (engine), a radiator with fan and a water pump

<small>[ June 25, 2004, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: papa roached ]</small>

[Jon_Carnie]

...the water weter causes better disapation of heat through the rad, and cooler coolant is going into the head? correct me if i'm wrong but our cooling systems are reverse flow, and our coolant temp sensor is on the top of the engine where the coolant enters from the rad, and the thermostat is between the bottom of the engine/lower rad hose, which would explain the lower temp on the needle?...the coolant temp gauge/sensor doesn't really have anything to do with when the thermostat is opening/closing...

[ikarus1]

So much pseudo-theory in here....
all I know is Nissan designs performance engines, they have designed the SR20DE as overkill N/A. They put the radiator and thermostat in there and put the guage in my dash. I know my car, since it was brand new. When I drained the 1000 mile old coolant 12 oz low and added 12 oz of water wetter, the gauge permanently went a 1/8 cooler once it reached operating temps, and I went from 15 deg. timing to 19 deg and can get away with 89 octane....
In my mind and alot of others, it works. Cheaply.

[mitmaks]

the proof is in the pudding, not in internet "bench racing". There is a reason redline sells so much of that stuff, because it works, both in straight water and antifreeze... [/qb]

Agreed! I have used it in two vehicles. 69 Roadrunner and a 72 vega. Both vehicles did show a difference after using redline. [/QB][/QUOTE]


jarid you had roadrunner?