Donate to the MX-3.com Forums
View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently December 15 2019, 2:12 PM



Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 looking for ZE input on fuel management 
Author Message
Supporting Member
User avatar

Joined: April 18 2002, 2:01 AM
Posts: 3432
Location: Washington state
Reply with quote
Post looking for ZE input on fuel management
OK guys I have spent I don't know how many hours reading and reading here, Probtalk, MX6, and so on trying to find a resolve and have been unsuccessful. As some may know I have purchased a 94 GS with a KLZE. The motor is all correct KL 31 heads, cams, and block. My hang up is it only dyno'd at just under 160whp. with the headers, bored TB, CIA, lightweight flywheel, and a proper curve neck IM it should have been more in the 170 - 180 range. First thing I have noticed is the CIA is a bit undersized with reducers from the VAF down to the pipe and stepped back up to the TB. BUT it should still have done better than that.

Well looking over some things it is running a KL85 ECU and a KL02 Vaf (95 only MX-6, 626), OK, i thought DE mapping on a ZE that would cause it. SO I have come to a couple of possible scenarios to fix the mapping and get the rest of the power out of the ZE thats being bottled up inside. It runs great the way it is other than every once in a while it likes to idle around 1100 rpm for a minute or so, and there is a saying that "if its not broke then don't fix it", but I am anal, and this is what I need input on.

Currently it is running a KL85 and a KL02 VAF with a curve neck IM

1- I could switch to a KL31 ECU and back to the GS VAF (Ideal situation), but would require a couple things and with the curve neck there would be a couple of timing issues but would be better than running the DE mapping. But then I could eventually relo the master cylinder res. and run a straight neck as well then it would be perfect with no issues.

2- I could chip the KL85 and see how that goes. This seems to be the ONLY solution to most reading on other forums, but IMO they don't run 100% and they all run very rich. This is the cheapest solution though.

3- My other thought was to go stand alone or piggy back, but this is my DD and should remain so, so I think going stand alone is out of the question. But a good piggy back unit would resolve the issues as well and have more adjustability on my end to get it a good dyno tune.

Any thoughts? I am "kinda" new to the ZE thing and would appreciate any good direction.

Food for thought - I don't care about emissions I live in an area that I do not have to go in for smog tests :) lucky me. I don't think this means anything really but I am averaging 23 to 25 MPG highway but it does have a standard GS trans, 3100rpm @ 60pmh sucks the gas.

_________________
Josh
95' AWD MX-3 RST - (work log - http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=73765 )
94' GS - KLZE DD (work log - http://mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?uid=2713&f=46&t=79063&start=0 )
05' MS RX-8 - Parted out and Sold :'(
Feedback - http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=49519
Cardomain Page - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/408020
Face Book page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mazda-MX-3-Owners-Enthusiast/137983472959216


December 30 2011, 2:08 PM
Profile WWW
Senior Member

Joined: August 25 2004, 2:01 AM
Posts: 5554
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
Modding the MX-6 booster and fitting the straight neck manifold is not that big a deal. The worst part of that whole thing was getting the booster out of the MX-6 in the junkyard.

With the straight neck manifold, KL31 ECU and JE50 VAF you'll be in great shape.

_________________
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.


December 30 2011, 3:13 PM
Profile
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: April 07 2008, 1:06 PM
Posts: 7198
Location: Manitoba
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
Depending on how much care was taken with the swap... do the VRIS work?

_________________
Now with Moderator power!

Black '93 BP RS - wrecked, parted, scrapped.
Green GS - Sold.
Black GS - Summer DD/Race car - Fancy KLZE
Red GS - K8-ATX -> MTX-KLDE - Frakencar. Scrapped
White GS - Rusty. Parts. Scrapped
1997 BMW M3 - my summer baby
2002 BMW 325Xi - sold
2003 Forester Xti - EJ20K swapped.
Feedback


December 30 2011, 3:48 PM
Profile
Supporting Member
User avatar

Joined: April 18 2002, 2:01 AM
Posts: 3432
Location: Washington state
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
Oh yes, the VRIS kicks in quite nicely, but it does seem to come on a bit late in the RPMs.

I am leaning that way as well with the KL31 and JE50, I just needed some conformation :) I did hear that there was an issue with the fan relay but that should be an easy fix. there is actually a second coolant sensor wired up that this ECU does not recognize I guess. It is from the old ecu that they had on it, a chipped K8 ecu?

The swap was done by a shop from what I understand, but that doesn't mean a lot. It is very cleanly done though, even the cruse control works :)

I think I will have to do the ECU/ straight neck swap and brakes at the same time then, perhaps this spring. Straight neck, ECU, master, and while i am at it 2 piston front calipers ;)

Thanks for the input guys

_________________
Josh
95' AWD MX-3 RST - (work log - http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=73765 )
94' GS - KLZE DD (work log - http://mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?uid=2713&f=46&t=79063&start=0 )
05' MS RX-8 - Parted out and Sold :'(
Feedback - http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=49519
Cardomain Page - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/408020
Face Book page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mazda-MX-3-Owners-Enthusiast/137983472959216


December 30 2011, 4:05 PM
Profile WWW
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: May 25 2002, 2:01 AM
Posts: 11212
Location: CFB Val-Cartier, Quebec, Canada
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
How was the A/F reading for the dyno?

_________________
1992 Mazda Mx-3 GSR - 2.5L KLZE : Award Winning Show Car & Race Car ['02-'09] (Retired)
2004 Mazda RX-8 GT - Renesis Wankel : LS3 Coils, BHR Mid-Pipe + Falken RT-615K 245/40r18
2011 Mazda Mazda2 GS - 1.5L Manual : Yozora Edition (1 of 500)
2003 Nissan Xterra SE - 4x4 Supercharged : 2" Body Lift, 4" Suspension Lift & 33" MTR Kevlar
2001 Nissan Frontier SE - The Frontrailer : Expedition/Off-Road Trailer Project


December 30 2011, 5:45 PM
Profile ICQ WWW
Regular Member
User avatar

Joined: August 21 2009, 5:24 PM
Posts: 1196
Location: Prattsburgh NY
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
Hey Josh, I have an extra kl07 ecu and a JE50 VAF....... I could ship them to you to test :shrug: .

Have you done a compression test???

One other possibility could be that you have a 31 head, 31 cams, Millenia intake, with a DE block..... However, that alone should net you above 160.......


Also, if your having a little hiccup around 1100 you could have either some lost spark or a slight timing issue...... (I'm thinking distributor timing????)

Just some thoughts.....let me know on the ecu\Vaf.

_________________
We all want to be fast and look cool. Cool changes but fast never does.


December 30 2011, 6:14 PM
Profile
Supporting Member
User avatar

Joined: June 18 2007, 10:51 AM
Posts: 7055
Location: Trenton ON.
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
Josh you didn't mention the exhaust, is it the stock K8 cuz if it is that's where your restriction would be. Swapping to a KL31/36 ECU and JE50 VAF would be easy for starters as well.

_________________
2004 Subaru WRX Silver, stage 2, minty interior.
2002 Subaru WRX Blue, SOLD (best E test numbers I've ever seen)
94 MX-6. Sold
92 GS KLZE 5 Speed
96 GS 5 speed, KLZE, Sold
95 GS Minty Shape Sold
92 GS Sold
92 GS Parts Car scrapped.
Feedback viewtopic.php?f=37&t=66348" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
7477th member.

I know you believe that you understand what you think I said but I'm sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.


December 30 2011, 7:34 PM
Profile
Regular Member
User avatar

Joined: April 03 2006, 9:48 AM
Posts: 1632
Location: Netherlands
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
I agree with the others... go for the KL31/36 and a JE50 vaf and you should gain the most.

Do a proper tune up (fresh o2's, good sensors, no leaking vacuumhoses etc)

_________________
Just another Mx3 freak :)

Feedback topic: Click

Worklog
Worklog click


January 02 2012, 3:36 AM
Profile WWW
Regular Member

Joined: November 02 2009, 4:03 AM
Posts: 1751
Location: Vancouver, BC
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
i have a probinator chip that was in my 94 mx3 ze with curved neck/je50 intake im selling. it might be a cheaper/easier option then tracking down a j-spec ecu... have a look at my thread in the for sale section if your interested...


January 02 2012, 12:19 PM
Profile
Regular Member
User avatar

Joined: May 24 2010, 8:26 PM
Posts: 80
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
is there any codes ?? you may be in DAIG mode causing loss of power ?

my engine light was on because of my O2 sensors ( but the bulb was burnt ) -- i could feel the loss in power so
i scanned it and came up with the code I then replaced the dash light bulb and it was then on :( .. i also replaced the o2 sensors and power was back up after i reset the ECU

just a thought for youre situation



Terry

_________________
Red96'Mx3 KL-ZE 2.5, CAI, full 2.5'' exhaust,cat delete, black stock rims polished lip, cross drilled brakes, (aftermarket bumper with halo foglights-Needs work) .
http://www.cardomain.com/id/whitete

Previous rides
Purple94' Mx3 K8-ZE CAI, Exhaust, plugs,wires
Purple95' Mx3 K8 american, CAI, Exhaust, plugs, wires,cap/rotor fuel pump, short shift,
Black 94' Mx3 i4 Stock ( hit by dear )


January 02 2012, 2:41 PM
Profile WWW
Supporting Member
User avatar

Joined: April 18 2002, 2:01 AM
Posts: 3432
Location: Washington state
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
No there are no codes, and the light works. Car runs great except for a high idle every so often. It was just strange to me that it only dyno'd at 160 ish WHP, but finding out that it is running a stock 95 DE ecu I think that is where the problem is. The KL85 ecu that it is running is specific only to the 95 KLDE MX-6 and 626, as well as the VAF that it is running.

I have a A/F meter I just may hook up to see where it is at. maybe its a bad O2.

_________________
Josh
95' AWD MX-3 RST - (work log - http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=73765 )
94' GS - KLZE DD (work log - http://mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?uid=2713&f=46&t=79063&start=0 )
05' MS RX-8 - Parted out and Sold :'(
Feedback - http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=49519
Cardomain Page - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/408020
Face Book page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mazda-MX-3-Owners-Enthusiast/137983472959216


January 03 2012, 2:03 PM
Profile WWW
Senior Member

Joined: August 25 2004, 2:01 AM
Posts: 5554
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
I would be very interested to see what affect changing the ECU and VAF has on the dyno numbers. To me 165 doesn't seem too far off. If it's rated for 198hp and you figure 20% loss isn't unheard of...165 is in the ballpark.

It will have some implact...5-7hp I expect, but 170ish would be pretty close to optimal for a stock ZE. The highest number I've ever read for a stock ZE is Whisper @180hp I think it was and that to me was hard to believe.

_________________
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.


January 03 2012, 2:42 PM
Profile
Supporting Member
User avatar

Joined: April 18 2002, 2:01 AM
Posts: 3432
Location: Washington state
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
Well if it was stock I could see 160. 160 is close I would be happier at 175. I have see other dyno graphs of stock ZE's dyno at 175WHP on DE mapping :)

It has headers, light weight flywheel, ported TB, 2.5" exhaust, CIA... I would expect it to be just a touch higher. I think with a new CIA and the proper fuel mapping for a ZE it would be a lot better.

I think I am going to source out a proper KL31 and JE50 VAF and see where it goes from there. worst case is I will piggyback the KL85 ECU and install a MAP for better adjustability.

_________________
Josh
95' AWD MX-3 RST - (work log - http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=73765 )
94' GS - KLZE DD (work log - http://mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?uid=2713&f=46&t=79063&start=0 )
05' MS RX-8 - Parted out and Sold :'(
Feedback - http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=49519
Cardomain Page - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/408020
Face Book page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mazda-MX-3-Owners-Enthusiast/137983472959216


January 03 2012, 2:59 PM
Profile WWW
Senior Member

Joined: August 25 2004, 2:01 AM
Posts: 5554
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
Wait you bought Whisper's car didn't you...must've been someone else that I'm thinking of with that number.

Ported TB is worth a couple, but lightened flywheel and CAI aren't going to get you any power just better response. 2.5"/2.25" exhaust are pretty well a given on any ZE install so that's not going to make much difference from anyone else's numbers.

With the KL31 and JE50 I think you'll see 170. I bet that's what I'd pull. I've never put it on a dyno but that's what I would expect. Let us know what you come up with.

_________________
94' RS/GS/MS/CF Monster Turbo...coming soon.
93' GS SE, the Black Beast, the former love of my life...soon to be gutted and crushed.
94' GS, black on black, now in several small pieces...and one large crushed piece.
2007 Mazda3 GT Sport --- super fun
2004 Honda RC51 --- Lost forever to some theavin' bastard
My Worklog
My feedback thread
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.


January 03 2012, 3:05 PM
Profile
Supporting Member
User avatar

Joined: April 18 2002, 2:01 AM
Posts: 3432
Location: Washington state
Reply with quote
Post Re: looking for ZE input on fuel management
Yes I did,

I will let you know what I come up with, running DE mapping on a ZE is good for the short term and will run just fine, but is not correct for a high output motor like the ZE and it needs to be more precise. Especially when running US grade fuel on a high comp motor.

_________________
Josh
95' AWD MX-3 RST - (work log - http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=73765 )
94' GS - KLZE DD (work log - http://mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?uid=2713&f=46&t=79063&start=0 )
05' MS RX-8 - Parted out and Sold :'(
Feedback - http://www.mx-3.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=49519
Cardomain Page - http://www.cardomain.com/ride/408020
Face Book page http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mazda-MX-3-Owners-Enthusiast/137983472959216


January 03 2012, 3:26 PM
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.